How valuable is a dog with no papers?

Don't get hung up on papers. There are dogs in pedigrees from way back that have questionable breeding. Some of the legendary dolmen went to the grave with the truth. If a person is paper chasing do you want to entrust your blood to someone who is not out to preserve the breed. I have seen too many who would pay for papers for a dog of lesser value to in turn breed the lesser to make money off such papers. This may not be the case allays but if papers keep you from wanting to breed with me then I say I never wanted to deal with you in the first place.

 

Guys let's not be fooled, papers are important as a short pencil on a piece of paper will outlast a long memory on even a young man. With time we all forget how things happened, therefore I say put pen to paper and we wont forget (or at least trhe ones who remain) after the man with the knowledge has passed on.
BUT paper is not everything- I will take a dog from certain men and bet my willy on a block that what he tells me is 100% more reliable than a piece of paper from a registry. Do you really think that you got to pay an organization to give you a piece of paper with their name on to affirm what you told them about your dogs.

 

And when I hear someone proclaiming,
"the only thing that pedigree papers are good for is cleaning up puppy
poop",
I smile and remember the beginning, FROM NOVICE TO EXPERT !

ADBA Gazette Spring 2002
by Amy (Greenwood)
Burford, daughter of Ralph Greenwood


I thought this is quite appropriate for this discussion - The Saint

 

My point here. If you breed bulldog to bulldog only then that's all you'll have to put on your paper. There are a lot of guys that say we have this and that but the animals aren't true to their papers. When I see certain lines I expect certain traits. When the animal acts different from the papers it's not a bad thing it just means you're buying this guy's line. Not the papers. But I really don't buy unless a guy has a proven working line and keeps a private yard. All the best stock is waayyy off peds online. That's a fact.........

 

A dog is worthless on paper it's what the dog does his/her merits that makes the dog worthy or memorable. Paper's don't mean anything they tell you how your hound is bred and depending on who you got the dog from those papers could be bogus as papers are only as good as the man who wrote them. If you are someone who enjoys showing your dogs with the registries you will need to have papers on your dog to compete in sanctioned events.

 

Uhhhh....naaaa homeboy that's not a fact!!...plenty of good stock online!!...there is some that are not online but they usually deal with a person that puts there stock online!!......its old cats on this site who has good working blood!!...plenty of the old cats are online but just don't say much!...Now this is a fact!!...muthafukkas talk online shit but offline it's a different thing!!..now that's a fact!!...whoever came up with the term "if u want papers then u must be a peddler or want to peddle dogs" is utterly bullshit!!!...I kno ppl with a fukkin gr ch and the grch offspring has ch's, 1x's, 2x's and he has papers for all his dogs and he works his dogs himself!!..if u buy a dog from him guess wat??...he gives u papers!!...been in the game over thirty years!!...he also said if man does not give u papers for ur hound it's because of a couple things...1) he doesn't want u kno his recipe...2) he probably has a stolen dog or a dog has been stolen somewhere in that ped and he's not able to get papers...3)he plans on fukking you!!...all that bullshit about not wanting to leave any trails is bullshit!!...if it's like that then so many muthafukkas should be busted by now!!...i kno DOGMEN who got papers on they shit!!

 

my 2 cents. I belive its a hell of a lot more eze to conn and cheat without papers!!.
Its a hell of a lot ezear to breed sell raise dogs without going to the paper thing of regestering them and paying for the papers.
Its a hell of a lot CHEAPER to not regester your dogs , and if dogs dont make the grade a waist of money to some.
there for today we are back at regestering dogs and only dealing with registerd dogs.
Afther the dangeres dog laws hit europe nobody regesterd there dogs anymore out of securety rezens
.yet sins some bans have been lifted people start regestering again . i can tell you one thing PLENTY of fake peds, made up peds and intyer litters sold with fake peds put on a homade pedegree. sins the ban. not to mention the cross breds pitbull AM staff, Pitbull SBT wandering around sold as pure dogs. not so befor that time!!!.people didnt whant to deal with dogs without papers and people had pride in there dogs and there peds.
Il go tru the trouble to regester the Dogs. its eze to claim and trying to look bold an bad in saying we dont regester because dogs are bulldogs bulldogs ecetera. YET every ped on your dog ""regesterd ore not"",
comes from the argives from the ADBA. without there register offise sins 1909 you would not know today what your ped was ore lookt like. and belive me regegerstering your dogs isend as ez as you think.sure every man for himself il stick to regestering dogs . i dont trust word of people specialy not in thise scene....at least the dealing with adba papers there is a bigger chanse you get wat you pay for.............

 

You keep hitting it on the head, I hear alot of people screaming papers are bullshit but I bet they asked for papers at some point and time. I know I have heard a few dog men scream I hate a scatter bred dog, well how do you know its scatter bred and how do you know when its not, its an opinion thing too. but say I got a "maverick stud and I want to breed back to the best maverick bitchs. I dont want ever tom dick and hairy coming along screaming they got a maverick bitch, show me. Another thing dont trust every man for their word because it dont mean shit. My mentor used to preach the same thing and yes he has good hounds but he couldnt read either, so I could see why papers dont mean anything. whats the purpose of peds online (veiw pedigrees). you cant say you never made the statement " I like how he is bred" you had to have seen something other than what someone verbally told you. I know it dont make the hound go in the box but if you have a knack for breeding you want to see lineage. how you know you got a "eli dog" or a bolio dog. these dogs had pedigrees back then so why not now. look at ch 35 never produce Why? no knowledge of his lineage. I never profited of a animal in my life other then working in a animal hospital so no its not about money if I have a litter I give them to good people, its a hobby for me not a way of living so money is not what I am here for. just good dogs.

 

hell the hound in my avatar didnt have papers but his parents did and when the owners of his litter mates asked for paperwork I sent it to them. hell I got a hound just recently if her papers dont soon come she'll make my daughter a nice pet. and my partner gave her to me. he is a stand up dude too but no paper no play.

 

limey i can take the number off 1 set of papers and put it on any dog that color . registries don't come to your house to see the pups after they're born and check your bitch and stud . yes it's nice to have papers to look at . but the hand writen ones are to . the thing is you can cheat both ways . and if you want to sale dogs . then it helps the sale to some people . if you don't sale then you don't need them .

 

IMO it's about %'s. If you intend on working with a line/family over a period of time and staying competitive , you need (your) records. At least for your personal reference on what breeding "clicked" and which didn't. A good dog with no record of breeding hand written or registry papers for me to use in researching how to breed the dog later. Will just be breed to the best of the opposite sex on the original breeds yard in hopes of producing consistent %'s. @ which point starts my record keeping

 

Old goat then awnser me this why would you cheat with ADBA papers, if you can sell dogs without and cheat without going tru the trouble..

 

This thread Kinda reminds me of south park.....lol

 

registration & pedigrees are two different things. dogs don't need to be reg to have a pedigree.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

It sure does mmmkay.

 

http://youtu.be/G4t6-2EqH_A

 

Who said they don't have papers? Who said no good dogs are online? The best dogs in my belief are not online though. I wouldn't and many others won't put their best dogs online. All those points are true with certain dudes. But I wouldn't just buy a dog from an average Joe with no papers. It would have to be real working dogs. I know plenty of old men online too. They'll tell their best dogs are not online. They maybe registered but they aren't showing you all of their cards. There are so many secret studs out there that no one will ever see or breed to. They are the dogs that only insiders or other old school guys can get access too. I've seen it happen more than once.

 

for money , you might have crappy bred dog and put better paper on it . they might of had the neighbors dog visit and then the bitch had pups . then they inbreed it back 2-3 times and have a dog that looks like a pit . there's all kinds of reasons . the biggest 1 is money . you said yourself that they are doing it in europe breeding crosses breeds . hell the same thing happens everywhere .

 

very at least the one my boss placed in melrose park