Interview With Bill Boylan

Bill Boylan: A few thoughts and memories

(As told by Vic Pounds, Crew Vic and Ed Reid during two special meetings scheduled)

Bill Boylan: As a boy I was born in 'the Black Country ", and I grew up there among people who were Staffords. I got my first puppy when I was about six years (around 1905), but my father thought it best not as a whole, and so he gave it away.

At the time, the Stafford is not recognized by the Kennel Club, but in the early thirties was much written in the Stafford "Our Dogs" about the history of Stafford. There was also of the Stafford to be recognized by the Kennel Club, which would enable them to participate in dog shows. I was in this very challenging time for Stafford to recognize, because I am convinced that the showing of dogs will eventually lead to the breeding out of the fighting instinct. I still believe I was right, because there are almost no more Staffords are even remotely come close to the Staffords who I remember from the early years. However, I believe it was a good idea for them to record and describe it for those who are more about the breed want to know. I know of incidents where there are newcomers to the breed hybrids and other types of dogs are sold as no Staffords were. I think this is wrong, and if records would help to prevent this then I am all for.

In 1934 a letter appeared in "Our Dogs" where everyone who was interested in forming a club for the Staffords were asked to contact Stuart Poole from Tipton. I also responded to this call, but because there were only seven responses, we feel it drop again. Later, when Joe Dunn at a club trying to set up succeeded, however, and the club got the name "Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club, and this club I was a founding member.

Before I really became involved in showing dogs, I wrote pieces in "Our Dogs" about my views on the show, this was in 1934 and here are some bits:

29 MARCH

STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIERS

(To the editor of "Our Dogs")

Sir,

I see there is a step to put the Staffordshire Bull Terrier recognized. This is in some ways good, but we realize that the real Staffords as a character from other dogs that it is impossible to take them through the ring to run? I would not mine to take to a show because the show or the dog would be ruined. But I think there should be greater certainty for future buyers that they buy a real Stafford and no crossing or something. The Stafford has no written pedigree, and thus one can not know what he buys if he knows it and the parents can see. Let's hope the buyers get a guaranteed satisfactory.

Signed,

W.A. Boylan

In a subsequent letter stated:

Sir,

Can we demand not satisfied pedigrees regulate? Twelve months ago, Mr.. Heald (which we know as an expert on the breed) in the magazine "Our Dogs" that there is no written pedigree of the breed. Recently, Mr.. Tom Walls with three of his Staffordshire's on a show and they were recorded in the catalog with "pedigree unknown", but subsequently stated that this was a mistake. Now Mr. declares. Staffordshire Moseley that it's pedigrees, this is all very confusing for buyers.

I know a lot of "old timers" who would laugh when you ask for a pedigree. The dog is his only family is his ability to fight and can not write a piece of paper can make Staffordshire a dog as his fighting instinct is bred out of him.

To return to our friend Mr. popular. Tom Walls, I have the book "The Bull Terrier, and all about it" by Major Count Hollow more. In the section on the Stafford writes: "Mr.. Tom Walls has bred a lot, but unfortunately he has several times crossed with colored Bull Terriers, which resulted in a 50/50 product. If this is true, then it seems true that they take out Stafford character for him to get in the show ring. The author advises everyone not to Stafford also buy them before they were developed.

Signed,

W.A. Boylan

(The letter from Mr. Heald that follows is a response to previous letter from Mr.. Boylan)

Sir,

To begin, I mention that I colored Bull Terriers have had show and now I am returned to my old love, Staffordshire. Ordinary hondenman has not the idea what a Stafford or how he looks is to see someone from outer space. I'm outside when I walked more than once a Stafford asked what it was. There is a crazy rumor that a Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club is founded, and there is a more extravagant rumor that Stafford was shown in the future will be in dog shows.

They are just bred for generations for a purpose which is fighting, they go to Norway and Germany, and Hamburg is a major center of dog fighters. The real Stafford is an intelligent, smart dog, but his only joy and life is a fight. If an idea has not called Stafford and he weighs more than nine pounds fit, it is a colored bull terrier or a cross with the blood. A true Stafford, in my opinion, has a head like a coal shovel, a jaw like a shark, is with his toes out, lies in his belly flat on the floor while his legs behind him on the floor, and once in embroiled in a fight he will never own free will stop. The color is red or brindle, and practically no white or fawn. I've seen a pigeon blue stafford 8 pounds, he's dead now.

I would finally say that a Stafford family has no written, he was bred Game x Game, Bill Fly with X's so and so's Betsy. But some old-timers and newcomers will tell you what their ancestors did and what the youngsters can do today. The Stafford is not colored English Bull Terrier, is a breed in itself. Clubs who want to cultivate the Stafford will disappear once and for all.

Signed,

Arthur Heald

Vic Crew: Going back to what you just said Bill, let me just say that I have a family of my first Stafford with me, a 45.7 cm Brindle rue called "Burrago Mephisto. It might be interesting to see the details of his descent to tell. His father was a Gunner's Brigand and his mother Brin Stock Attraction. The father of Attraction Brin Stock Game Laddie was that of course came out of Game Lad. And her mother came from Bilston and Sedgley Bill Queen, and behind the other sections blank. Brigand's Gunner came from Tackle and Lady Eve. Tackle Jim's father was the Dandy, which in turn came from Joe Fearless (the base of the dog J-line)

Bill Boylan: Before we talk about that first show in the first Hatfield, none of the exhibition of the lumbar Staffords had met before each of my knowledge. After the big announcement of the show I wondered what kind of dog I would see in the ring. I had heard that Lew Prince would come, he was the owner of Tuscaloosa Sam, and the famous actor Tom Walls was there with a Stafford, and in between I was a normal boy. Walking through the massive gates of Hatfield, I felt the tension grow, and as I approached I saw the Stafford Benches Norton Green, Lew Prince and Tom Walls are trained together, and no attention to our cal acknowledged. Then I saw their dogs face with a thin white collar with a thin white line. The benches were used 12 different types of Staffords. There were only 2 classes, and I could only pay 1 so it was the open class. After Game Lad attached to his bench and looked around to have to have all incoming people I saw for free dog food and drinking water was given to each exhibitor with the compliments of Spratt's dog food.

Despite the fact that I had seen something about the regulations on the registration form when I filled out I had not read it, so I did while I was waiting. There was also something about aggressive dogs and required chains for your dog to the crate chains. I myself had two chains Woolworth, and I made them firmly to the dog in his wide collar to control. The dog was just his snout to the corner of the bench will not go. I now began to relax, and I enjoyed the pleasant atmosphere, until suddenly a great comotie broke. Game Lad had a Fox Terrier to be gotten in a bench next to him Sat Fox made an infernal racket and screamed bloody murder, and Game Lad shook him back and forth like an old rag! There was soon a crowd to the dogs, and I tried Game Lad to his collar to hold to strangle him loose, because I knew only too well that things would take a long time before he would decide to hold release. As I weighed the two dogs did my best to get them loose, I felt streams of water thrown over us, so I pulled my raincoat that I wore on my head by accident. After a while the dogs loose, and I saw that Fox had an ear bitten off, it fell from Game Lad's jaw on the floor!

Everything went very well, but the Second World War threw all our plans in the water, we were just a few combinations with one of the best dogs of the time The Great Bomber, he was owned by Joe Mallen.


​

Game Lad:

 

Vic Crew: During a conversation I had years ago with Mr. Beilby on Brent show I noticed that in his book "The Staffordshire Bull Terrier" Laddie Ch.Game labeled as one of the best that has been bred Staffords. Now you say Bill, that your opinion, he is no longer as good would do in the ring, you would like to explain to readers why you think Bill?

Bill Boylan: Yes, I do. His legs are not short enough for the show today, but he was a dog that had everything. He was well balanced and adapted the original standard, with its 43 cm (17 inches) and weighing 17.3-18.2 kg (38-40 lbs).

Vic Crew: So because he was high on his legs do you think he no longer would make in the show ring?

Bill Boylan: Right, and The Great Bomber, Gentleman Jim, Cross Guns Johnson and many others.

The Great Bomber:



Vic Pounds: They were more then the terrier type.

Bill BoylanJim the Dandy won a few shows, then he is not seen.

Vic Crew: When the original standard was adopted, when there were more dogs that you think instead of the Jim Dandy could have been used?

Bill Boylan: Yes, Game Lad was a dog of a similar type, and I think a better dog. Jim the Dandy appeared on Star Show at Wembley in 1936, organized by Leo Wilson. There was a class for which more than twenty Staffords Staffords from all over the country were, including Barham ... Cloth of Gold .... ... Joseph Bocking. Vindictive Monty etc (these two dogs were locked in the clinch). Game Lad was second and Jim the Dandy was not placed. The first prize went to Joseph Bocking, a small dog Tom Walls used to set the blood to regain his line after inkruisen his white English Bull Terriers. The Jim Dandy is then no longer shown. Vindictive Monty had shoulders that I think what could have been faster, but he gave a son named Montyson Vindictive, a great big dog that the first CC ever won a title at Stafford was granted.

Vindictive Monty:



Vindictive Montyson:



Ed ReidWhat do you think of changing the standard in 1948 Bill?

Bill Boylan: It was the people of Cradley Stafford who came with small dogs, and they wanted the standard was adapted to their dogs, their dogs and not to the standard. This was the reason why they have a maximum height of 46 cm (18 inches) decreased wanted, because they possessed all the little dogs. Newcomers who did not know the whole situation agreed with the changes, but they had no choice.

Ed ReidWhat was the reaction of the Kennel Club in this whole thing, what was done, and how could that your opinion?

Bill Boylan: The Kennel Club wanted a standard for the entire race, for many clubs at that time had their own standard. This was not good, and it was therefore important that something happened to get a final standard, and this was the reason that the Southern Club agreed to reduce the maximum height of 46 cm (18 inches) to 43 cm (17 inches) but not to 40.5 cm (16 inches). The Kennel Club sent message to all the clubs Stafford, in cooperation with each other to get a common standard. In May 1948 the Southern Club organized a special meeting to discuss what the needs were. From this meeting came as a result they did agree that the standard could be reduced by 2.5 cm (1 inch) but there was no talk of a further reduction. The delegation of the Club to the meeting Wolferhampton went, got this very clear instructions to agree with the reduction (everyone thought this would be 1 inch !!!!!!!). The Club at Cradley had a message sent to the Kennel Club that they felt that the standard should be changed in 35.5 to 40.5 cm (14 to 16 inches). And this opinion was also returned by the KC to deal with during this meeting. And this was widely accepted during this meeting, everything was in fact less than one minute. For the meeting was never discussed a reduction of more than 1 inch.

Ed Reid: What was the motivation behind your comments to reduce the maximum height leading to a smaller dog for the show ring Bill?

Bill Boylan: I think the reasons for smaller Staffords breeding there are many. Commercial purposes, selling to women instead of the Poodle for example, and more. I could be wrong but that's my opinion. If they would try to sell larger dogs like Joe Moulds are a line of large format and a lot of spirit, there would be a good wife needed to handle such a dog. By making them smaller breed, they are easier to sell to those who just want to earn money on the race ! Just after WW II asked some breeders 9 to 10 pounds for a puppy, which I think a lot of money for a Stafford pup at that time. I sold my puppies for 3 to 5 pounds in that time. Soon I began to realize that commercial dog breeders and traders arrived in Stafford. Their efforts are not for their love of the breed or the breed for what they can do but only how they can earn as much money on.

Ed Reid: Have you ever seen a small Stafford you got?

Bill Boylan: Lestom Boy, slightly lighter than 13.5 kg and not exceeding 35.5 cm, he was such a good little should be. Although he was a small dog, he was perfectly balanced, with everything in the right place in proportion, a miniature of a good size. Lestom Boy lived in the early days, and he was bred from a line Kinsey line fighting game. The bigger dogs were 43.5 cm, some even slightly larger. Vindictive Montyson was approximately 19.5 kg, the Great Bomber approximately 20 kg, 18 kg and Gentleman Jim Cross Guns Johnson as well. They were all of a different type, but all very good dogs and they all certainly 43 cm or more.

Ed Reid: Some dogs in the 30s were still used for their original work, you can say that a lot of the best fighters had something in common, a particular type or construction?

Bill Boylan: Oh yes, the best had a lot in common, both physically and mentally!

Ed Reid: If we have a lot of old photographs studying "Pit Dogs" from the past, we see that they had a very different structure than the show dogs of today. If we think that the show dogs look really supposed to look like the top dogs fighting in the past which had proved to be the best in the work which they were originally bred for.

Bill Boylan: It was the best dogs that Joe had Moulds, but they would present in the show ring, no chance to make. Joe had to agree on the short-legged dogs to me, he always wanted a bigger dog, because it has more chance than a dog he is so small that he must fight from the bottom and he would know!



Ed Reid: We see reports show that certain points are rejected, and instead encourages others, and everything is reported to be derived from the original work of these dogs. So if we are to believe everything, the dogs improved, and should be actually better than their ancestors. But the question now, as the dogs no longer come close to their ancestors, and therefore increasingly drift from the original fighting machine, both in construction and condition, what do the dogs of today represent?

Bill Boylan: That answer should be given by the judges.

Vic Pounds: The danger with show dogs are on the floats. There are people who adopt dogs as they look for large heads, dogs with a lot of bone, etc., and this is precisely the problem. They forget the balance sheet. Whether 1936-1956-1976-1986 or 1996 is a good dog will always be in balance, but the problem with the default of 1948, I was personally against it, that he was a breeder impossible to get a good balanced dog breed. Because the standard 2 inch (+ - 5 cm) was lower, they had smaller breed dogs, often set lower content dogs. This meant that often e.g. from a litter of seven puppies smallest and weakest pup was held instead of the biggest and the strongest because it perhaps would meet the standard.

May Boylan: And do it often they choose the one with the shortest legs.

Vic Crew: How often we hear not "the smallest of the litter are the best?

Bill Boylan: Yes, this happens often because they fear that they become too large when they grow up. There is nowhere a mention of the qualities that make the breed what it is but what is slowly being bred out. I'm still the same view as the first time I attended a show, and that is that few varieties to both the show and for his original work to be bred. Years ago at the Richmond Championship Show (when it was held outside) on a very hot day, twelve Bulldogs overcome by the heat and fainted. Some people held umbrellas over them to protect them from the sun, others were loaded into trucks for them to save energy while in the shadows lie. So there were a dozen of them stick, the whole show was a fiasco.

Vic Pounds: So as you see, like a dog bred for the show and he is going to be popular, then changed the structure and all the rest of the dog. Just to comply with the latest fashion, because fashion sells. Yorkshire Terriers Why do they so small? and so there are many examples also in other breeds because of the popularity and reputation on the race, and because it sells their puppies back more bags to fill them. I do not think they Stafford blow by him to a certain standard to breed. The Staffords are freely moving, active and well-built dogs. The danger is that the e.g. a trend for a Stafford 12 inches (30.5 cm) to breed or a dog with an extremely large head. And there are certainly enough so breeders will breed a dog if the money will lead them. Unfortunately you by the short gestation of a bitch and the short time it takes for a female is ready to give birth to pups, all possible breeding characteristics in it. So as you can see little good showing for a race if it is controlled by driven people and people with great knowledge.

Ed Reid: How can our club the best breeders informed about what is desirable in the breed (of old) and what is not? Otherwise, our Stafford one of those dogs that have been updated, powdered, cut and shaved, but should be in order to comply with the latest fashion, instead of its traditional character, a tough, hard, brave but noble person with a heart of gold, what some still are today.

Vic Pounds: The people who run clubs may well advise you how to bring a large dog and breed, but they are very often the members themselves that they often disappoint. A show to club K.C. rules, a club that supports hondenfok which was shown to be. You can plan meetings, discussions and all other possible sites, but they are just not interested if they can win something. This was painfully evident during the Summer of 1974, when the expert on the English Bull Terrier Mr. World. Raymond Oppenheimer, would attend a debate on how the Stafford should look like, how one chooses stud and other important issues. The rise of the members was embarrassingly low.

Bill Boylan: And there was also talk about where these dogs were actually for? As far as I can see is that the longer these clubs exist, the farther they drift from the original which was bred for Stafford ... to fight! ... But it will not be long that they no longer even in able to kill a mouse!

Vic Pounds: We are governed by fashion. In other words, the default of 1948, a new height / weight clause with which I disagree, and so I leave the club. I would not be a club member, all I want to be good Staffordshire Bull Terriers, nothing more, nothing less. But for my bitch I need a stud, and most are too new to the breed standard, so they do not meet the requirements I set a stud. You need very good look around and find a dog that come closest to the dog you want.

Vic Crew... ... .. Also this dog will have a product of a fashion trend. I will try to explain what I mean. If we have a several years back in time, we find on the list of judges have a lot of people with more than an average knowledge of the breed, people who Stafford bred, raised and tested for a very long time, but the number of recommendations that these people now have to adopt are minimal. Unfortunately today we see so very few Old-Timers approve. They are by their knowledge and skills more than capable for the audience to explain what to look for in a good Stafford, and how you can best find.

We can see all the placings in recent years, it was totally ignored type and weight. Some judges adopt a particular type and weight because it is fashionable or a trend to create.

Vic Pounds: These types are usually the types that they themselves are walking around!

Vic Crew: I am fully agree. The consequence is that the winning dogs at stud will be asked, so we slowly but surely removing the original.

Bill Boylan: Remember that before these dogs to show dogs were recognized, many Old-Timers dogs refused to sell to women. Most of the showers today are now women.

Vic Crew: That is interesting Bill, because I had a conversation with the now deceased Fred Holden during the last show, Crufts. He said during this conversation: I love the South (England!) Women are responsible for today's Stafford.

Vic Pounds: Nowadays the real Staffordshire Bull Terrier breeders do their best for good, healthy and active dogs to breed, like any good dog should be. whether show dogs or not, hear the stable and healthy dogs. The floats are about the people we must protect our race against, because these are the people who have helped so many dogs to kill! The real problem is the default. If you approve, you must adhere to the standard, and thus a well-built dog height tends back to the old standard, irrespective of the breed he is perfect or not.

Bill Boylan: The increasing number of cesareans that I've read lately, we very seriously. We had no such problems with our bitches over the years that we breed dogs. And, most Old-Timers had these problems. The short-legged bulldog-like dogs are undoubtedly responsible for this phenomenon, and as long as we continue to use Bulldog-like dogs, our females are the victims of his.

 

Ed Reid: Our biggest concern right now is to use Bill Bully Bully males on females, we all know what misery this might cause. We can only hope that eventually common sense will prevail.

Vic Pounds: Although we are not there yet, maybe we can achieve in ten years time!

Vic Crew: Let's go Bill, I'm sure the readers are interested to know what your idea about how Stafford looks perfect one to see. What are your ideas to the basic ingredients for a good Stafford?

Bill Boylan: He was a damn good fighter have to be perfect. Anyway? He must also have a lot of temper! As construction is concerned, he is not much heavier than 18 pounds and certainly 43.5 cm high. He is also active and rapid. Game Bill Stafford was a well built and was owned by Joe Mallen, another well-built dog Jolly Roger. These dogs were not short enough for the show ring today, but they were of the real type from ancient times. Now as I should re-start, I would again start with the original types. I would also be a good curve of the ribs to see a fairly short back, but above all he has good balance. The muzzle should be broad, but despite the fact that a broad muzzle, he is very nice not too wide. He must have enough bone and a good mouth with teeth. A bitch should be at least 39.5 cm high and 42 inches with plenty of bone and a good balance and very active. A right front and good feet, and when he is in balance with enough bone must have a good movement. If you can find males and females of this caliber, make combinations between them, then you have some extremely good animals for future lines. You'd at least three generations of these dogs for parents to know, to know which types in the line. The ancestors would generally be of the type you are looking for, without actually short-legged specimens with untypical features. I wish I could see that happen again, before it's too late!

Ed Reid: Before we finish this very interesting interview Bill, I wonder if you have that photographic memory of your stories or incidents that you find interesting, no matter whether they are happy or sad. But what comes to mind, the kind of stories that people nowadays only come in books.

Bill Boylan: (Laughing to himself, continued ) What about the time she went to the circus in Blackpool and went into Tough Guy names. The circus people did not want one of their lions staring, because he could scare their largest ever. Tough Guy could have everything, it did not matter what, he was everything when he was left loose! He came from the strain Westall, an old fighting game Dead line for many years old. I think I'm the only one ever Joe Mallen has put in the show ring and got away with it. During one of the Cradley shows Joe showed a dog he could not keep under control. The dog could not behave and Joe could not calm enough for me to be able to continue my testing. So I told him to bring a dog outside the ring until I was finished with the other dogs, and he could come back. Joe joined the ring, and he came back when I called him again.

We had a lot of support from the old dog fighters in those days. Brindle Bill was there, and I found a very nice dog. Before I met Joe Mallen, Phil Dee, I knew already, and he introduced me to Joe at the Old Cross Guns in Cradley Heath. Phill Dee loved it very much to bet on Dassenbaitings. He always had a good Das available, and he bet that no dog, no matter what kind of, it could hold out until at Das Das would stop, and I have never heard that he ever bet lost!

I can remember I was a good bitch took me to a pub in Hanwell, London and Phill Das had a sport. I put the bitch down, and then she, and what a struggle she had. She must have thought it was as you approach another dog, but Das is different, very different, and they experienced the the hard way! I do not think they would be stopped, but I grabbed her before she could think too much about it because the Badger did not, he sat in the corner and fought her off. I do not know how I got her home but we did and she came right over it. She died at the age of ten years by an infection in her mammary glands.

It happened once that a young policeman came in and while he was inside, his sergeant was also in very unexpected. We did it for him to hide in the basement (cellar where the famous Joe Gentleman Jim, The Great Bomber hid etc.). It took a half hours before the sergeant finally went away, and the young policeman was shivering from the basement of the cold, or fear! Joe had something strange, he bet a pound to anyone with a game that Stafford could not tame rabbit death bite. It had to happen in his back. I do not know why there, but Joe is lagging to this day. A good death is not tame rabbit Stafford (Joe's bloodlines descend from fighting lines from Wales and West Country, from prosecuting long time).

At the Western Show in 1974 I saw many Staffords screaming and screaming trying to get to the nearest dog, that's my opinion untypical. The best Staffords are not noisy, they are calm and safe, ready and willing yes, but not uncontrollable crazy. Gentleman Jim (who really could fight a robbertje!) Warned his opponents never fall out loud, he was quiet but effective! I took Jim often take a walk without a leash, and he was never interested in other dogs, unless they tormented him. There he was also totally fearless! When Joe told him to address them, then he took them too! There was once an incident with my own Brin Stock Challenger. A Chow Chow with a slack belt took a sudden leap to attacking my dog, and without making a sound grabbed my dog, the Chow. He turned around and had him in an instant at his throat. Fortunately a lot of the Chow's around his neck, so that not too much damage was caused. As you can see my dog knew instinctively what to do, and he did it quietly and efficiently.

Then there's "Gangster", in Game Lad, he was sold by Mrs. Harrison (now Mrs. Adam) to an Air Force officer during the war. He became the mascot of the officers' mess in Croydon. During the 'Battle of Britain aerodrome in the Gangster stayed while his boss was fighting with the Germans during a heavy attack. Gangster tried to follow that a German plane flew low, and he was slain by bullets from a machine gun from an airplane. He was also still hit by shrapnel from a bomb, but he never showed fear, and he met his master always landing. Afterward there was a photo of Gangster in the officers mess hung, and hung it around the photo sections of German aircraft were shot down by his squadron, and underneath were the words: "in memory of Gangster."

Miss Jane kept her Staffords at work during the war years. Her two females killed 111 rats in 15 minutes at a bait, and one of the females took 27 fox cubs and one adult Das from the ground, and all in four months time. All this was appreciated by local farmers who were harvesting grain and other food. There was a Badger from the North brought the war to two dogs at Cradley Heath test, both good dogs. I heard that both dogs Das killed in rapid succession. The police were very Allert Cradley around this time to something or other, so everything was put on the back burner. So it went in those days around the Old Cross Guns, there was always something going on.

He was a butcher. This took place around 1936 and had about a dozen Staffords in a barn, and they were all with a chain attached to the wall. They all gave the impression to have a lot of spirit and they were very aggressive against each other but this was understandable because they were very close together. They were not what I was looking so so I came home without a dog. I'm sure he loved them to fight. Later I heard many stories about this man and they were all very interesting!

Arthur Heald was another very interesting person. He has written a book about the Stafford in privately circulated, the title is "Make Ready" (one of his letters are at the beginning of this interview). I had heard much about his dogs and I was interested in one of them, so Phil Dee drove me to him in his car. I took my bitch Mad Molly with me in case the dog would be like me. We had to wait a while before he noticed us and when he finally appeared, he said the dog was not present. Even if he had then had been pointless to try to cover he said, because he had broken the leg of the female where they had tried it last time. So we went back empty-handed things back home. When we at once went towards a show with Joe Mallen, we saw a train on a kenneltje stand. What was there again on May?

May Boylan: "I'm Arthur Heald's dog, who are female are you?"

Bill Boylan: Later we saw Arthur in the company of an elegantly dressed woman with the dog of course. Joe Mallen asked him how heavy the dog was 18 pounds and Arthur said. Joe said that no dog is 18 pounds, but Arthur said that the dog is weightless. Joe shook his head and said: I bet with you for three pounds dog that weighs more than 18 pounds. The bet was accepted and soon we marched through the local street looking for a place where the dog could weigh. When we finally found a point where we could weigh the dog, the dog was 20 pounds more weight than 18 pounds. Arthur borrowed a pound of his female companion and paid Joe.

Another interesting person is Miss Marjorie Jordan, a veterinarian. A few years before the breed was recognized, I sold her first to Miss Marjorie Jordan Stafford, a bitch named Jennifer Gin. Since then, Ms. Jordan always Staffords had, she always took them along when she practiced her and she can tell many stories here.

I hope that many readers will enjoy this interview, I hope as much fun as I've had to talk about Stafford. Before we conclude this interview, I would have lost something here. Despite my sometimes harsh criticisms of certain aspects of today's Staffordshire Bull Terrier, I must admit I was recently in the show ring and some good specimens seen. If soundness, activity and a good 'Bull and Terrier 'type is kept, I think that Stafford is not lost. Breeding the traditional dog, and not the fashionable. At a recent show was an exhibitor told the judge that his dog's head was not wide enough. I saw the dog but found that there was nothing wrong with his head. Of course you can find a wider head, but it is better to breed a head that something could.

In conclusion, I think the breed clubs do to a race too popular. They would be better able to put themselves in the breed for quality rather than quantity. Terrierras to reflect the most entries at the shows, it does not breed well. Population has never been on a race well done and if not the breed clubs to get together stabbing, then before too long the race can not be saved and will lose his position.