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Linebreeding advice

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Kostas81, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Kostas81

    Kostas81 Big Dog

    First of all, I would like advices from people that have done this before and saw the results. I can make guesses by myself, but I prefer the advice of real experience.
    Let's say that I have two littermate bitches and I want to bring one of them, back to their grandsire.
    Grandsire is linebred, not tight but in the family of his bloodline.
    Bitches are 75% linebred and 25% outcross. One bitch is a throwback to her grandsire and the other seems to have more traits of the outcross.
    Which bitch should I choose for the grandsire (both of them, is not a possibility)? I don't want to get inbreeding defects, but I would like to get a litter just like the grandsire!
     
  2. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    If you want the grandsire then breed to the one that is like the grandsire. Breeding, line breeding and in-breeding are all the same. It is all about selection. Breeding the dogs based on their traits is more important than lining up the paperwork. Let the selection of traits be your guide.


    A loosely thought out long term plan with your situation would be to breed the 'like traits' and then breed the other female the same way. The paper work will show them to be the same but you, as the breeder will know the differences. From there the two litters can be 1/2 brother-1/2 sistered to make it last forever.


    Best of luck. S
     
  3. Kostas81

    Kostas81 Big Dog

    What keeps me back is that, if the same traits are the same genes, won't be like tight inbreeding causing defects in the offspring?
    For example, Mr.VR bred Chinaman to his daughter VR's ChinaGirl, who she was nothing like her sire. The result was a healthy litter with tighten his traits. If I "overdo" it with the same genes, I'm thinking that will strike back at me and have the defects of tight inbreeding.
    Don't take serious what I'm saying, I have no idea, just my inner thoughts...
    Thank you for the luck sir!
     
  4. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Not to try to play or words, but successful breeding has nothing to do with breeding. It is all about selection. No means is perfect but selection puts odds in your favor.


    Using your example. Chinaman bred to Chinagirl's mom to get Chinagirl and her sister. China Girl is nothing like Chinaman, just like her dam. Her sister is like Chinaman spit her out. If bred to both daughters the paperwork would be identical, the coefficient's would be the same, the inbreeding of father to daughter would stand out but the breeder would know the difference.


    Breeding him to his like daughter would be inbreeding on both papers and in reality. Breeding him to the unlike daughter would be a paper inbreeding but in reality it is the same breeding as the breeding that made the two daughters, Chinaman to their dam.


    Only the breeder and the 'raiser' of the two females would know which was which. Every Tom, Dick and Harry with access to the peds would see it as an inbreeding.


    The kicker is then selecting which way you want to go. As the breeder you are driving the bus and you get to choose the travel route.


    Granted defects are going to pop up with in breeding, line breeding and total outcrosses. Selecting for certain traits as well as not selecting because of a certain trait is selection and selection is most important.


    If you inbreed on a dog with a lot of defects odds are you will get more dogs with those defects. If you inbreed on dogs without the defects (selection) the odds are more in your favor.


    Far more detailed than my explanation, but that is it in a nutshell.


    S
     
  5. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    great advice slim...
     
  6. Kostas81

    Kostas81 Big Dog

    Grandsire and both bitches are "defect-free".
    Based on your argument, I should go with the identical bitch, because I aim for bulldogs like the grandsire.
    Thank you Slim!
     
  7. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    the best style of breeding is going back to the source of waht you are lookinf for as it will help stable those traits...I prefer a looser breeding of a grandpa instead of
    the sire, seems to make for longevity if you want to keep breeding amogst the family...
    but what do I know as I am still learnig from ziggy, please chime in with an example...
     
  8. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

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