Old Timers-Dogmen

Lips: I know some ppl will disagree w/ this BUT ... IMO the AST could revive the APBT - that is assuming all APBTs were gone. There are some throwback ASTs - like Noble's Blaze of Glory - with whom a program could be based around. But then again I am not one of the idea that they are different breeds. I just think the AST & APBT are different strains of the same breed.

Other ppl are of the opinion that they are different breeds & that is fine, they have that right ot their opinion. But I am not of that train of thought, as the exact same blood runs in the veins of both strains. And just as you have show springers & field springers, show cockers & field cockers, show coonhounds & field coonhounds, you also have show pit bulls (ASTs) & "field" pit bulls (APBTs).

Anyway, to get back to your original question - if the APBT were wiped off the face of the earth, I do think by taking outstanding specimens of ASTs & breeding to the original pit bull standard, one could eventually resurrect the APBT. After all, the AST is 100% APBT blood & just a show version of the APBT anyway.

As for your second question, that is a bit harder to answer. To save the breed first of all we need to polish up our public image. But since this is not a communist country & one person does not have control over all, that won't happen.

What do I mean by that? Well, for every person like Hoyden or Suki, there are 10 ppl who like to use pit bulls to scare ppl half to death or are street fighting them in back alleys. Now if we could cull those losers & get the positive ppl working together we might be in business, but again, I don't see that happening.

IMO one of the first things we need to do is lobby the ADBA & UKC to drop the ABs, b/c it is usually these dogs who are getting loose & wreaking havok & are the prime type of dogs ghetto trash like to use to intimidate ppl. If anyone has an idea of how to get that ball rolling, I am all ears.

Attila: I see what you mean about laws. And some laws are unneeded. But some are there for a reason. For example, here in Mississippi, ppl DO ride their bikes on the shoulders of highways. It's not uncommon for folks for whatever reason not to have a car or not to have driving privileges, so they bike everywhere they go & some places they need to go can only be accessed by riding on the highway. Dangerous? Heck yeah. But they still do it.

realone: So far as I know no one was supposed to kill Cain. In fact if my memory serves, God marked him specifically so no one would kill him. And yes, it says vengance is reserved for the Lord. But what does that have to w/ dogs? :confused:

pitbull20004: I think that's great you're educating your neighbor. But you have to remember, the person in question has to have an open mind first. If they have a closed mind & no desire to learn, you can preach all you want, but it wiill like talking to a brick wall. I know I've tried to educate closed-minded bully fanciers & it was a total waste of time.

JMHO ...

 

well Missippi is an interesting place but I didn't see much industry for jobs that was for sure. I think a person should be able to ride a bike on the side of the roads and even the shoulder of a highway. Just not in the middle. But common sence should tell a person that. And if they are dumb enough to ride in the middle then society isn't gaining from that person anyway. thud. lol one more bad apple removed.

 

What are we preserving? the APBT as a breed? or the fighting dog and the game it's self?

 

both..............if you breed to preserve/better the breed, aren't you preserving both?

 

well to be completely honest I believe in preserving the Game more than preserving a breed.

 

ok, i understand that.....but, in preserving the Game, aren't you preserving the breed also? that's what these dogs are supposed to be, no? And don't get me wrong, i'm not putting down anyone that does not have a game dog.

 

In part yes, but if I tried a combo of something else and it worked and I got
good dogs from it that was better in the [] than say a "pure" bred then no. I think the Game should take way more importance in keeping the game about than having a "pure bred"

 

Attila: Yea, Mississippi is an interesting place alright! :p

RC: If you preserve the gameness you preserve the breed. Gameness is the essence of the pit bull & it's what sets the pit bull apart from all other breeds.

 

ok, i understand that......but to me, game/breed are one.

 

ouch.......

 

But think about where the APBT got it's gameness from.... remember those little terriers.... Some people for get that this breed was created from a wide variety of scorces to make a dog that could excel in fighting. I still really don't see this "breed" as a real "breed" I think the function is way more important then "pure breds"

 

I meant preserving the breed standard OF the game dog. That includes the physical appearance as well as gameness.

I just cant imagine what is gonna happen to the APBT in 30 years if its only taken Dave Wilson and the other hippo pushers 15 years to do this.

I had speculated that since the Staffie is the closest thing to the APBT and has been preserved as a breed whole a lot better that we may keep them in our back pocket for the future.
Yes I know it is a differnet breed
Yes I know they have different physical charachterisitics
But I also know that it if our breed did parish that is the first alternative I would switch to.
I also think that IF we had to choose a breed to help strengthen the line in the late future they would be a great option verus heading to a different dog family outside of the bullies.....ya know? I mean they came from the same lines, have a lot of the same peds and have the best potential....again its all speculation.

 

Ok,IF we had to go to such drastic strategies to preserve our breed we could use the Amstaff's and terriers......no?
What if we had to make up a whole new pit bull?
What if the fatties rained supreme?

 

To preserve a working dog you must breed working dogs! If you don't breed dogs
that wouldn't be able to go or win in the box the your breeding Staff's anyway

 

Your comment can bring about a whole new discussion about whether or not the APBT is a 50/50 mixture of Terrier & Bulldog. I personally don't think so. I think there is much less terrier in the APBT that some believe & there is a lot of historical data that also points to this. Therefore, one would have to say that the bulldogs of yesteryears was a gamedog without necessarily having to have terrier blood bring it into the mix. Just my 2 cents

 

Ha ha very true! So Rev, whats your plan for the preservation of the breed? And no you cant say that you'll do your own breedings and keep em to yourself......I know you, haha

 

No soup without water ......

 

That is correct. some of us say that this is the origianal bull dog, and every thing else is just a weed off and mix of some thing else.
Hail to the Old world bull dogs.

 

I say the same. I will breed and keep it hidden and to myself if that is what it takes. Do what I was born and trained to do. Pass it off to the most worthy yard hands.

 

I can't/won't give away all my secrets.