Papers Dont Make Dogz, Dogz Make A Paper

Joe Corvino once said: "Dog makes the papers, papers don't make the dog."
He also said: "Good dogs are were you find them."

Then there is the saying: "Blood always tell."
"Game Dogs produce Game Dogs and Curs produce Curs."

All the pedigree does is enhence your chances of getting a good dog when it grows up.

Traits are recessive and so is quality. jmo

 

didnt jeep run away from jocko.. so why was he bred if dogmen believed Curs produce Curs

 

Sorry I haven't introduced myself but I just read this post and being the daughter of one of these old time dog men I recognize all the names of these great dogs. Some times when a litter would produce a cold dog and the rest awesome dogs the cold dog could be saved for breeding and the others used for sport because it's always a good idea in this game to keep a strand of the blood you get nice results from safe. Face it a cold dog had a lot longer life expectency and the same genes

 

It has been rumored that Jeep's OWNER ducked Jocko..

You should do some research before typing stuff like this on the board..I didnt notice a question mark at the end of your statment,so I am assuming that you are stating what you believe to be fact and not asking if he ran,right?.
Jeep was bred because he was "great" dog..

 

So let me get this straight...
If you get a litter of "awsome" dogs you could keep the oddball cold one for breeding because he has the same genes as his "awsome" siblings?.What am I missing here?.
If siblings all have the same genes than how come none of Yellows siblings (with the exception of Sassy who produced well)produced dogs like Yellow did?.How come Reno didnt produce as well as his brother Jeep,etc ?.
Im not trying to argue with you,I would just like to know more about this "breeding method"..Maybe if there was DNA verified straws of Lil' Gator out there,but besides that I wouldnt even think about breeding to a cold dog..

 

I've heard of breeding dogs that have never been to the woods if they're brood stock. You wouldn't know if they were cold or not. Just to cross whats tight with what you need. Cull through the litter/litters and see what you get. Who can say whats right or wrong as long as you keep them all and the dogs don't end up in the wrong hands being bred by idiots. I know I've heard of cold dogs that could produce. I don't remeber off hand which dog, but I'm sure someone does. YIS, DJ.

 

You are mistaken. ELi Jr., Bullyson and Brendy are siblings. Spook is their dam and Eli the sire. Clemmons has bred dogs on there first heat though FWIW. As far as Spook is concerned she was looked at real hard. If I remember it took a week but they finally got her to quit, but she showed them enough to keep and use obviously. I am still under the opinion that on a given day any dog will quit and I don't think any honest person will dissagree with this. You breed what you think will win and produce winners and papers are a handy tool in doing this. No one in their right mind believes that papers intrinsicly makes a dog actually do anything "better". Only a fool thinks that, but paper in what ever form you prefer ( hand written,adba,ckc,aadr) is a valuable and IMHO a necessary tool to breed dogs correctly.

Look at Honybunch the greatest producing bitch probably ever, she wouldn't go on her 1st look and you know what?? They bred her anyway and tried her again later. The rest is history. It probably had something to do with her "papers" or at least how they read anyway :-)

axiom

 

Papers dont make a dog, but papers do help foresee what a dog MAY become.

 

Those who do not understand the importance and value in knowing something about the dogs and/or men who are responsible for creating the dogs they personally feed are truly not worth arguing with.

As for Ch 35, it is far more likely that he was not found wondering the streets as a mutt, but rather found at the end of a chain while his owner was caught slipping. When was the last time you walked outside and seen a Gamedog trotting down the road? I don't know about you Gentlemen, but I know the Dogmen in my neck of the woods, and ain't none of their dogs, or mine, going to trot day and night just to walk past another Dogman's yard countless miles away. Now I have heard many dog thieves, or those who don't mind taking dogs from dog thieves, say that the just happen to find a Bulldog. What are they, dog catchers? Concerned citizens that pick up every stray dog they see and then set it down in the box? I don't know anyone that would be compelled to round up stray mutts, set them down, and then breed them.

With Respect, pmk

 

Good post HBK & thanks for the correction.

 

Knowing WHERE you are gaining traits from (both positive and negative) , and where the foundation of your genepool was formed, is in our opinion, essential to producing solid dogs consistantly. Other breeders or yards may disagree in their philosophy... as is their right... That doesn't make them wrong, or make us right. Having said this, we are experiencing some great success through the use of these methods

 

cates told me GR CH NIGERINO's mother was cold

 

I think it all comes down to what's the person preference, just as we all like different lines of dogs for different reasons... Some people need papers and some dont. Some can trust their breeders and the others need that paper to back it up.. Its a lot of old timers that hand write their peds, and have no interest in using a registry... JMO


As far as cold dogs and breeding untested dogs, i have heard that with my own 2 ears talking to a old-timer.. His exact words were "Never touch your brood female, because if you do you going to mess her up and i have seen a lot of good dogs go to waste".. And i wouldnt count a cold dog out, you have to understand every dog dont mature as the other ones will. you give a good breed dog some time, and a little TLC and watch what happens.... Everyone says breed this and that, and this Ch and this winner, but the main key to success is PATIENCE and TIME!!!!

 

I have heard little gator rom was cold all his life
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=siblings&dog_id=9466

 

The dog in TripleJ's sig was the brood dog for ATK for quite a while. That bitch will stay on a hog until the job is done. She is bred TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT. Would be brood only to some, but that bitch can hunt, so why not let her? The last litter off of her was supposed to be all brood stock but they were left in the hands of a jackass and were all ruined. Supposed "Partner" was a dumbass green, greedy ass switchout.:rolleyes: Live and learn. YIS, DJ.

 

Im suprised that some people condone the breeding of cold or untested animals..Brood stock should never be touched?.Are you kidding me?.
Just because a dog is bred tight he/she is brood stock and shouldnt be held to the standards of a dog bred not as tight?.HA!.
Some of you dont have a clue..

A dog has to EARN the title brood stock on my yard..People who call there animals brood without doing anything with them are either SCARED to find out the truth,or out to try and make some money..Breeding cold or untested dogs is taking a step back in your program PERIOD..

And before you internet doggers go to spouting off at you ignorant ass mouths about cold dogs that have produced well,just remember that for every cold dog that produced well there are 1000's of them that didnt..Breed garbage dogs,wait 2-3-4 yrs on your "cold" dog,and stay patient if you want,but I personally wouldnt go that route..Breed your cold/untested dogs and in a few years when nothing works out you'll be in the same spot you are today..

This is my opinion,and I am in no way trying to push my views on anyone..

** When I mention phrases like untested and dogs not getting checked,I am refering to any one of the many legal venues that people compete with their dogs in..I am in no way talking about anything illegal,because as my signature states I am opposed to ANY and ALL forms of animal cruelty..

 

People can clearly bred what they want, however, the only test I know for a brood dog, so be it a cold dog, cur dog, gamedog, winner, loser, or whatever people choose to breed, is found in what they produce.

If they cannot produce, then I wont breed them, and I surely would not call a dog that has not proven to produce, or one that has failed to be a solid producer, a brood dog. I don't care how good they are as bulldogs, if they fail to produce then they are not worthy or deserving of brood stock in my opinion.

 

I understand where you coming from and dnt disagree with you, you could be right who knows... But if you read the post it said that, that was they way of some old-timers... Im no breeder and a longs way from it and was just sharing what i heard... As far as testiing your brood stock some do it and some dont, ( me im not at that point) TO EACH HIS OWN.. That was the whole purpose of the first post, everyone is different and have a different method for everything no matter what it is... Ex.. Sports, we have different sports and different teams for each sport because we all like different sports, and we like how this coach or that coach lead his team and so on.. As far as a cold dog, im not saying breed them... Im saying let them grow and mature first, some people will cull a good dog because it didnt start up at 15 or 16 months as they on fire redboy dog did.. all im saying is each dog is different some will start a lot faster and some will start a lot slower.... And no matter if you breeding tested, untested, cold, or whatever you still need TIME and PATIENCE

 

I agree with the first part of your post,but in MY OPINION a dog has to earn the right to be bred..

 

I wasnt argueing with you (the poster) I was argueing with the post itself, regardless if it was you or an old timer who stated that you should "never touch your brood female,because if you do you going to mess her up,and I seen alot of good dogs go to waste"..

Not checking or even touching the dogs that you plan on using in a breeding program is something a AmStaff breeder would do..

As far as you saying TO EACH HIS OWN in regards to people checking their brood stock, I agree 100%..Thats why I clearly stated that this was my opinion,and that I wasnt trying to push my views on others..