please help same problem again

This dog is still a puppy & his behaviour it totally normal. It also sounds to me like the dog was mishandled. And before you say it, yes, I read you've raised other dogs. But that doesn't mean doodly-squat.

Each dog is different & requires different handling. You could have raised a 100 dogs before this one. But that doesn't mean the techniques you used on them will work on him. Sometimes vastly different changes are required, sometimes only minor differences.

That being said, I have had mouthy pups in the past & one thing I used to break them of it was something called "aversion training."

When the pup mouths my hand, I snatch him up by the collar (back feet on the ground of course) & shove my whole fist as far as it will go into the back of his throat & hold it there. The pup will struggle, gasp, gag, drool & otherwise act like you are killing him (I assure you, you aren't. Just don't put your hand so far back into his throat you block his air way).

Basically make it him as unhappy as you can. If he drools, so what, If he gags, good. If he struggles & flops around, let him. But above all make sure you keep your fist deep in his mouth until you are 100% without a doubt sho-nuff sure he is absoutely sick of having a human hand in his mouth!

Yes, this is gross & yes, it may be considered harsh by some ppl, but it works & I have never had a single pup mouth me after one GOOD aversion lesson!

 

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Well thank you for clearing it up..and plenty of us are very open-minded...and nobody bashed you in my eyes.....

One more thing......
PET APBT's HAVE JUST AS MUCH DA IN THEM AS HOUSE PET APBT's ...It does not matter where you keep them, they are what they are....DA...house or outside.
12 years huh?
What breed were they both....?

 

Interesting...:rolleyes:

 

I very much agree......it is almost the situation with the APBT...they are what they are....:confused:

 

bighead - When it comes to APBTs there is ZERO difference between yard dogs & pets. And this comes from someone who knows. When I first got started I had 4 APBTs, all of whom were raised together in the house as pets. They had obedience training, the whole 9 yards. But that still didn't stop them from turning on & trying to kill each other.

Most APBT have some degree of DA. Sometimes it's a high degree, as you saw, sometimes it's a small degree, bordering on non-exisitent. But most have some degree of it. After all, canine combat is what they've been breed for for over 100 years. To expect a APBT not to have some degree of DA is like expecting a duck not to swim or a snake not to slither!

And as a side note, 12 years in the animal industry does not mean anything. I have met ppl who have had way more than 12 years in the animal industry & they still knew very little, b/c the infomation that had accrued over the years in the industry was inaccurate.

 

well tryed but couldnt give you rep points either...but for what its worth very well put.

 

Bighead: i'm really hoping you didnt have a wolf hybrid and an apbt at the same time...

 

Wich is normal for every dog. More or less.

 

that would make a good thread to discuss.

 

"swing low sweet chariot, comin for to carry me home...." time for that dog to go out to pasture. like was stated, your child or the dog? seems obvious to me. it may seem like it isn't that black and white, but it really is. at times like these you have to put aside your emotional attachments and make logical decisions. hope you make the right choice for you and your family.

 

We need to keep this in perspective here.

1 - This dog is mouthing, not biting.

2- This animal is still a pup & mouthing & rough play are normal for puppies.

3 - We have obvious handler error, so bad habits can still be trained out w/ good re-handling.

4 - The pup isn't going after the kid or showing signs of aggression. It is only getting mouthy with the HANDLER & only does so when the pup is being forced to do something it doesn't want to do. Sort of like a teenager "talking back."

All in all, I don't see a cull situation here. I see handler error which proper & consistent training can easily rectify.

 

Abk that exactaly what i thought but i wanna just make sure. know what i mean. as far as a handling prob.(which i think is not the prob)but im not the stupid guy who refuses to listen what do you believe i could be doing wrong.

 

Hello to all. I have read with great interest all the diverse advice and comments. And I do mean diverse! LOL If I can offer an opinion, I don't think this is HA. I really think this is testing and playing at 11 months. An APBT can never ever be trusted not to be DA . This could escalate or not. I agree that it is an area of concern. I totally agree with the zoomie thing. Mine could go thru concrete while zooming around. About the dog that killed the other in 30 seconds. I absolutely believe it. I'd like to know the sex and age of both animals and breed of the dead one. Also how long they lived together. I certainly would not have a pit in the house with another large dog for any amount of money in the world. Not a gamebred one at any rate. Now if he has been fixed, and his bloodline has been watered down, maybe on a very long shot would I consider it. One of my boys lives in the house and always has with cats and a small female dog and its always been ok. If he sees a large male he is berserk. I have even had the tiniest of kittens safe and snuggley with him. Now my out side boy is the same way, again no other male or large dog is safe. Murder is on his mind. When they are growing up they have to learn lessons just like we do, one of which is their place in the pack. Put him on his side and force him to totally submit when he gets mouthy. Make sure the action is warrented when you do it. Never let him eat before your family. He needs to wait. And he must earn his food. Sit or stay or something. I am assuming this is a house dog. I have only the one inside and the rest are outside and manners arent so impt. I am still baffled by the pit and the other one inside together. Maybe they were raised together? That is still far too risky if the pit is gamebred. Of course all this is JMHO.

 

Hello. Welcome to the site.

The 30 second killer dog was a female wolf hybrid and the male that was twice her size was a wolf hybrid as well.

 

I commend you on not wanting to be one of those people that ignored the warning signs until it was too late. Thank you for seeking help now.

While I do agree that human agression should never be tolerated and is absolutely not the APBT standard, I agree with the opinions that this sounds like a case of a young dog whose behavior has a good chance of being modified if taken care of right now.

First, since you know that he is reacting this way just to you and just in a certain situation, do your best to not put him in this situation for right now. It should not be avoided, as you need to train this behavior that he is learning out of him - but don't set him up for failure until you have provided him with the training tools that will allow him to learn to react appropriately.

If I read everthing correctly this sounds like a sort of game you are playing with him that gets out of hand and leads to an inappropriate reaction. This dog can clearly not handle this situation right now. Dogs react differently to things. This may have been your former dogs' favorite game, but it doesn't matter - find a different way to play with this dog, at least for now.

DO consult a professional trainer. Sometimes sending a dog away for someone else to train and then send back to you can work - but this case sounds like it would benefit from a one on one trainer in your home that can work with you and your dog. This is an inapporpriate reaction he is having to you, and you are the one that needs to learn the skills to deal with it. Different methods work on different dogs and a trainer can observe both of you and find something that works for him.

I am not one of those trainers that only believes in positive reinforcment to the exclusion of repremanding unacceptable behavior, but I do believe that positive reinforcement works best whenever possible. I have used aversion training in some situations and it can work, but try this method of positive training first: Get a bunch of small, soft treats that he loves and can eat quickly (I like the Natural Selection rolls that look like sausages. You can cut them into very small squares and they are healthy - not to mention they last a long time cut up very small, which makes them cost effective). When he is in a relaxed mood, say "collar", reach above him slowly so he doesn't startle, and grab his collar and hold it while giving him a treat. You'll need to do this lots of times, all through the day in different situations, so that he comes to associate being grabbed with getting a tasty treat. Don't do this while playing with him until he has that positive association, you don't want him to feel that his collar being grabbed is stressful or negative. Since you have a small child, you can do this with things like ears and tail and paws as well, as a child will be grabbing more than just his collar. Makes sure you are using LOTS of repititions, LOTS of treats, and LOTS of praise. Do this outside as well, it helps him not to want to run away from you if he gets loose and you need to grab him quickly. See if this exercise helps, but don't substitute it for consulting a trainer. They may only need to come to your home once or twice but it is very helpful to have an educated pair of eyes observing the situation to offer advice and feedback.

From what I read, it does not sound like the child has been threatened by this dog. Since I have not been there to see it and can only interpret what I am reading, I cannot fully evaluate it - but it sounds as if behavior modification is applicable in this situation as it stands right now. IF you cannot see significant strides in correcting this very quickly (as in, start tomorrow), and you feel that your child is in danger, it is your responsibility to make a difficult choice in order to protect your child. I am not against euthinasia in circumstances where there has been human aggression, but since it sounds like this dog is snapping at you in a certain situation only and not actually biting you or threatening your child, this dog could probably be rehomed if you do not feel safe keeping him. If you do choose to rehome him, be very careful you know who you are giving him to. I advocate a reputable breed rescue to help you find him a home (be sure you research it first, a good place will thoroughly screen all applicants). He should go to a person that knows the breed and is familiar with training and behavior modification. And PLEASE make sure you are very very very certain this person would not put him in a dogfighting situation (I hate to even utter those words, but we are all aware that it is out there).
The bottom line is, if there is ANY doubt, you must protect your child. And thank you again for recognizing this problem and attempting to stop it now. It is the ignorant and irresponsible owners that make us all suffer when BSL comes knocking at our door.
Good luck.

And no, I don't believe that this breed is for everyone, or even the majority of people... no matter how much that person may love them.

 

Good post red tornado! But I would like to point out once again, according to the OP, the dog is NOT snapping/biting, only mouthing. Big difference between the two!

 

I agree.....

 

Ahh, I thought he was starting to snap when his collar was touched while he was worked up or being stubborn. (So many posts to read through sometimes its hard to get the true idea). If he is just mouthing and 11 months old this should be able to be trained with no problem. I would still get him used to any situation he is uncomfortable in with possitive association and treats (with the exception of any dog aggression that comes up, in which I believe he needs to be shown his place in your pack and made to submit). This is definately not a situation I would kill a dog over.

 

So last night Im just sitting around having some beers and Leonitis got a hair up his ass and wanted to play. Things got a little heated playing tug-o-war with his rope and he bit my hand. When I picked him up by the scruff of his neck he FREAKED and started really trying to bite me. This is a 3 month old puppy. I checked him pretty good. I didnt hit him, I just grabbed him up by his face and gave him a stern "NO!" "You dont bite!" You've never seen a dog turn into a wiggling pile of mush so fast in your life. He nustled up under my neck licking my beard. LOL Made me feel bad for correcting him but Im not having that biting shit. It did kinda worry me about the future but Im not scared to handle it.