Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

LOL I like how you put it, haha. I don't think anyone wants a dog to murder someone! I kind of want to train an APBT [game bred] as a Schutzhund, but I actually really want a Schutzhund poodle. They're smart, agile, large... perfect!

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Kruze I guess this is natural from him but he protects me right off the back since the first day i got him till now he will littarly kill someone over me

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I beleive most well bred apbt raised from pup will be at leaqst slightly protective of their owner....i dont consider it a positive or negative trait...but my bitch from proper working line... will fuck your asss upp if you try to hurt me... she is not human aggressive but she does not like people messing with me... i dont consider her behavior completely typical but i dont look at it negatively...
i kind of consider her the ultimate home guard dog, when someone comes to the home she barks and seems aggressive but shes just excited to see whos coming in...is not human aggressive in any normal situation but if you do something aggresive she would tear shit up real quick.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

it would depend on the dogs background.
my game bred dog wouldnt protect me unless it was from another dog. she did show a sign of protecting my ex once but i figure because the dog placed herself higher up the laddr than my ex, i would have no chance of her doing it with me tho.
i wouldnt want her to anyway doesnt make for a real bulldog in my eyes.

i had a mate with a non papered ghetto dog that was the dumbest thing i ever seen. had the shell of a bulldog but hardly the brains. great looking dog but when every now and then we would have our dogs loose together they would be fine for a little bit then my bitch would just turn on him. 99% of the time we seperated them before things got bad , but the one time my bitch decided to get into him when we had our backs turned and the big dumb thing curred out before shed even got a solid hold on him. 65pnd dummy with a 35pnd bulldog. the same stupid dog would gaurd the house and its owner all the time around people it didnt know and was an issue with humans when it was walked.
like i said shell of a bulldog but hardly acted like one.
maybee you have one of these dogs jelet?

it was a nice dog but it wasnt a bulldog. it was a apbt.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Wow... how old are you? Respect is something you need to learn. I would never ask a gamedog to protect me and my girl. It is a working dog plain and simple, now Mr. 44 magnum.. she is the true home defense. I highly recommend you do some reading and god forbid you have an "accident" where your DOG attacks someone... that is all we need another pitbull story :rolleyes: well, it appears you don't want anyone's help or advice. I just hope you got into the dogs for the right reason.....

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Rofl. You are the hard headed one.

The next thing your going to tell me is that APBTS are not supposed to bark because they were not bred for to be vocal per se. Its instincts. They will protect there master when in real danger. Keep making me laugh, this is fun. Oh yea and nice chain setup AGame. I almost pissed my pants when i saw your blue amstaff on this chain setp! Jesus man. Go get the pit bull bible and learn how to put together a proper chainsetup. wtf is this sht u got here. LOl




LMMFAO ok Jelet this dog u refer to as a blue amstaff is not at all an amstaff,he comes from a very well known dogman out of Texas and is a childhood friend of my wife he is out of 2 black dogs no other dog in the litter was this color.before i got the dog he was a tried and tested game dog,it seems to me that everytime u see a Seal colored dog u say oh thats not an APBT well u are wrong very wrong in this case , now as far as my chain setup goes thats not a permanent chain spot no dog houses around it, it is a tie out,notice the quick snap. this is only used when i take my dog in the yard to relieve himself bc this certain dog is a house dog. any more question about my yard we can take to private messeges

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

well said my friend well said...

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

even though this thread is pretty pointless and unproductive, I can't help but post how reminiscent the concept of "my breed of dog is BRED to bite someone if he thinks I am in danger" is to the stereotypes that are perpetuated by the public, because of people who buy certain breeds of dog because of some preconceived notion that their dog is suitable and reliable to bite someone in the appropriate instance of danger. Three letters: B.S.L.

It's that same type of ignorance that causes idiots to go out and buy breeds that they think will "protect them", looking for Pit Bulls and Mastiff-type dogs in the Classified section of the Sunday paper, and whatever else people do when they hear about a dog that will be "instinctively protective" hahaa. As a result, peddlers will always have people to sell their dogs to. It's those poor perceptions that have ruined countless breeds i.e. APBT, Rottweiller, Cane Corso, Presa, and the list goes on. That perception seems to exist on both ends of the public eye... those who want to put an end to the dogs we love, and those owners who feed the public perception by misinformed opinions and lack of breed education.

TRAIN YOUR DOGS.. PLEASE.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I second that. Great post.

I have dogs that I have raised from a puppy that wouldn't do a thing if I was attacked. For Example. I had one of my females with me walking who isn't DA or HA and is used for obedience. My friend wanted to touch her (someone my female has never seen or met) and I wasn't in the mood, so he jokingly put me in the head lock and while I struggled, clawing at his arm, she licked his boot and grabbed her and ran off. Of course she was returned because he was just joking but in all seriousness I really tried to get away from him and she did nothing.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I posted this yesterday but I think you missed it Jelet so I will post again.

jelet wrote -
"Have any of you ever beein any real danger before with your BONDED dogs. No you have not. So how can you say your apbt will not protect you? A well bred apbt should only show HA when the owner is being attacked. Only excuse... And if you were never attacked before, how can you see your apbt be HA? Exactly. "

Yes! can't be bothered to get into it but yes he has protected me from both dog and human, don't care if you believe me don't care what you think either to be honest.
I don't think you understand what you're saying but I'll give it a go -
APBT are the best protection dogs when they are untrained??? do you know what I can't even be bothered with this mate do some research on all the guardian breeds like I have and am still doing and then you will understand.

Fuck it here goes.

what would you rather protect you?

A. Caucasian Ovtcharka
B. Fila Braziliero.
C. SA Boerboel.
D. APBT.

The reason APBT is answer D is because you would have to be a dunce to pick one over the rest! An APBT will probably protect you at SOME point, but a true to type (temperment) guardian breed WILL DO WHAT IT IS BRED TO DO AND ONLY GET BETTER WITH TRAINING!

You don't train a dog when to bite but expect it to make the decision when to do with no training? That is just irresponsible and to be honest a 35-45lb APBT would not detter me half as much as a 100lb AB (johnson lines).

O.k so lets tell all the people who need personal protection dogs (I know two people personally that use them) to get APBT's and then what when they bite someone another 1000 bulldogs get slung in the fire WORK IT OUT!

I don't believe it is good for the breed in any way shape or form to say it will bite people, fuck me surely you realise there are unimformed impressionable people on here just reading (like me usually) that may think it would be a good idea to get one and use it for the wrong purpose?

Sorry to be harsh but it needed to be said.

I LOVE the APBT I wish I could own one but It will not happen at the mo' cause of BSL and the reason we have BSL is because dipshits let their "pitbull type" dogs bite people WORK IT OUT.

And the waiting for a bus line was meant as an example you doughnut. :rolleyes:
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Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

I agree and it's true

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

All because you have a APBT does not mean he won't be protective Bruno or example he is a Bolio and Redboy mix and he is one hell of a beautiful i'm gonna post him up before xmas if I can try but he is hella protective I remember seeing him at 3 weeks of age he adored me automatically but when the breeder came and asked if this is the one I'm buying tell me why Bruno starts growling at him (his mother was like this to but not at the owner) and tried to bite his finger and Bruno has been like that ever since

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Jelet....I do OB with my Staff, but I see plenty of APBTs work the sleeve and french ring. Some really great dogs. APBTs excel in training, they are such "people pleasers"...but the sport is just a game to them. Schutzhund is no different than peer jumpin to the APBT....they love to learn, they love to keep on keepin on, PBs rival their guardian competitors in the OB, some simply out class the guardian in OB, but they are notoriously softer on the bite than their guardian competitor....ask yourself why, as you call these GSDs and Mals....CURs. Perhaps they are at the APBT's "game", but at their game...like a first class NYC K-9, well lets just say you would not want one of them on your a**, because in THAT GAME, they far out perform to closure of the task, gettin the bad guy, than the APBT would ever care too!

Nothin wrong with trainin an APBT to a sport...NOTHIN, but getting an APBT to train as a guard dog or K-9 is like gettin a sleek thoroughbred race horse to cross the deserts of El Paso. Why would you aquire such a fine animal to do the job of a desert pony???????????

Understand and respect the work other breeds of dogs are meant for. There is nothing finer than a Guardian doing their job---it is very amazing, as amazing as admiring a game bred APBT and all of it's potential.

BTW the reason the APBT IMO is softer on the sleeve than a guardian is because to the Pit it is a game, to the GSD it his JOB~! Now I suppose you could get the same kind of enthusiasim from the PIT if you could get another bulldog to run the course with a sleeve on.....may have trouble with the out.

And I agree with Woody....my girl took a beatin from my neighbor, she also sat by and let him break my hand with his out of control behavior when she and his sheppard scuffled. He got angry and took it out on us, she never raised a tooth to him...appropriate behavior for a well bred PB IMO. After it was all over and he was cursin the fact she was a PB, I told him he should thank his lucky stars he attacked a woman with a PB, cuz had it been a GSD he probably would have been swiss cheese.

I think most our pets will posture to protect us...but it takes the right breeding to cross the line and back it up with physical force....it also takes a lot of very directed and skillful training...that is the Guardians job.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

This post is the one that EVERYONE should read ,and read again. Great post Barkada27!

"there is absolutely no way to know if a dog is going to protect its owner in the case of attack or stress... if an untrained dog protects with no trainer, then that is just an isolated incident with an individual dog, with nothing to support if the same outcome would be produced if the situation were to repeat itself or if a different dog were to put in that situation. The same could be said for any other form of training.. if I expected my dogs to do well in weight pulling, just because they can pull hard on the leash during a walk... hahha I'm gonna be in for a rude awakening when I hook that dog to the cart. Training is developed for a reason... to develop a CONSISTENT, desired, pre-conceived response so that that same response is produced when the intended need presents itself.

Sport and live protection dogs are extremely different in disposition, but the thing that thet have in common is that they need to be TRAINED in order to secure the end-result. To have a protection decoy agitate a dog and have a dog bark and growl on-leash is one thing, but to have that same dog perform under high stress is quite another thing. The application of that stress and pressure is what the field training is for (to evaluate a dog's performance under normal and high stress, to see if the dog is appropriate for the JOB).

Aside from my Olde Bulldogge and my Jeep and Bolio pups, I also own a German Shepherd imported directly from the Czech Republic from Czech Border Patrol working-lines.... his entire 7 generation ped is comprised of well-known dogs who actively worked for the border patrol service. Obviously, even that is no guarantee that he will be the right dog for the job of personal protection (which is the reason I bought him in the first place). Extreme assessment has gone (and will continue) toward the different areas of his temperament, drives, and nerve... if he doesn't have the right qualities to perform the job, he gets moved out and placed... and I move on to the next prospect. Simple as that.

Not to sound condescending or undermining, but the even more important aspect of formal protection work is the aspect of obedience. All the agitation and drive work in the world is a lost cause with a properly trained protection dog if the handler/owner does not have a top notch obedience control over that dog. If that same concept is applied to the average bulldog owner whose dog reacts by instinct and bit someone.... what if the reaction is the wrong one? Or the wrong situation? Then that untrained dog just bit someone for no reason, and the owner had no solid means of obedience control to have that dog out (release) on its grip on the owner's cue/command. In other words, most properly trained protection dogs will be vigilant, and will not react unless cued by the owner (verbally or physically)... and for very good reason.

So the perspective I have on this topic is that pet dogs should not be relied on or expected to perform in any form of protection work, for two reason and opposite extremes: 1) either they won't react with any courage and will bark in fear (from a safe distance) 2) or they WILL react, without any form of high control or pre-trained communication with the owner. Either option does nothing but negative things for anyone involved, including all owners in the breed-owning community". <!-- / message --> <!-- controls -->

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Training has one real purpose to put the dog into a situation and to teach it the appropriate response to that situation. When the adrenaline is pumping and the poop has hit the fan you want a dog that is confident and controllable. I have seen horror stories where people dont train correctly and the dog nearly kills the "bad guy" because they never trained the out command. or you see stories of homes being robber, and families savaged while the guard dog was locked in a closet or under the bed cowering. you have to build the dog up and develop a "superman" complex in them so that they will face a threat, everytime, and even if ther eis a bite situation be immediately responsive to commands given when in that highly excited mindset. that is what people train and work thier dogs.

I saw a comment earlier that say most dogs will not protect, and i cant stress how tru that is... thats dogs of any breed. Unless you are getting dogs that are working prospects its a really high probability that the dogs natural defensive, guarding, and protective drives are not being nurtured, or tested in the breeding program. so you might end up with a great looking dog that appreas to be picture perfect specimen of the breed... mentally they end up lacking.
I am not personally a fan of full blown bite sports. I work in SCH with a trainer for about a year, but a lot fo the exercises and scenarios were really unrealistic to me. Protention training or street ring are far more likely scenarios for a regular person. I think that at the very least a dog that is intended to guard or protect as part of its duty should be bite tested, even if you go no further. i would never put my family proterty, or life on the shoulders of a dog that hasnt proven in a controlled scenario that they will preform under pressure. and release when commanded to do so.

Thats just me.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

im a firm believer that if you want protection, get a gun. they dont eat much, and never need to be taken out to poop.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

just buy a working line fila and you wont need to worry about your apbt gaurding shit.

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

All of my Sch dogs are gamebred, what does that have to do with anything? Two of those dogs are also therapy dogs that go to the VA hospital. Does that make them dangerous because they do Sch? No it does not if you understood anything about Sch you would think differently. This is where ignorance can really give the wrong impression. I am not calling you ignorant it just sounds like you know nothing about the sport. Now protection I completely agree

I see nothing wrong with these dogs do you?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oof8w7r3S4[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9MzsOr04SA[/ame]

This one is also a therapy dog
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIFVnFKnX20[/ame]

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

In my opinion Sch is good for gamebred dogs. It gives them a job and a lot of them excel at it. This doesnt teach your dog to be more human aggressive and it doesnt gaurantee your dog will protect you when teh situation presents itself. Its something for teh owner and dog to share IMO at least. I have had one apbt EVER that i am certain would bite someone to protect me. I have had one that would bite someone bc he didnt like people. I got rid of him bc he didn't like my mom or brothers. I have hand a handful that would prob bark and pretend like they would do something. A handful that wouldnt pay the situation any attention. Thats just the way it is. And like i said at the beginning of this thread MOST dogs WILL NOT attack someone to protect their owner from danger PERIOD

 

Re: Purpose of "Bite Work/Protection" Training?

Look I said before all because you have a APBt doesn't mean he's not gonna protect you