Questions about Zebo

See and this I can respect I know dogs are going to die sometimes there is nothing you can do to prevent it this it happens and that's a risk you take when you send your dog in there. But what I don't understand is watching your dog get hammered while it fights the dog is getting completely demolished and the dog keeps fighting it's giving everything it has but has no chance to win this is where I feel like you should do the right thing save face save the dog and pick it up. I don't understand why this should even be a debate? I feel like that it's a given it's just respect for the dog the dog just can't win and you would think the handler could easily pick up but apparently not LOL

 

Yeah but Naus does it really have to die to prove itself? Isn't a dying dog who keeps going knowing that dog is going to loose no matter what enough? I am not talking about a dog who dies from injuries that shit happens and you can't do anything to stop that but try and save it on the way home. But you as the handler have to know and see when a dog is beginning to shut down no? I don't mean quitting I mean the dog is so badly hurt that you know or have a round about idea of how much longer the dog has? The dog's not going to stop because it's doing what it should do but you know the dog well enough to know it's at it's limit and the time is ticking?

 

The dog always has an opportunity to stop, regardless of how many scratches its completed before. If that dog is obviously dying but still performing then I see no reason not to allow him to finish out what has been started. The dog has two outlooks proving to be deadgame, quitting, or being picked up and dying later on due to the severity of its wounds. A quit in that situation would make him a cur but certainly no rank cur and would garner respect for putting up with the punishment it did. Deadgame would be an honor not many get to witness and then theres the slim chance that the other dog quits first and you get to dispose of a dead winner who did it the hardest way possible. These are very hard choices to make but are a reality when those back then went to set one down. Its not for everyone but its what sets the breed apart, their resolve is far superior to other breeds and in most cases their owners.

There are certainly times to pickup and I'm not advocating or backing the practice of consistently leaving overmatched dogs down, merely highlighting the fact that it does have a place. If a handler can see he has no chance to win but believes he/she can still save their animal then I believe they should get a handle and pick up that moment.

 

Ok I see what you are saying I think these situations we are talking about are really dead game dogs and they are usually pretty rare vs your overmatched dogs who are left down out of either greed, hoping the other dog quits and wins by default,being naive not knowing the dogs are being overmatched or maybe they confuse an over matched dog with one who will go out dead game and it ends up quitting as a result. I just have to be honest for me it would be hard for me to bond with a dog go through all the stages of getting the dog to that point and then having to make the choice to let it die or go out dead game. I don't think I could do that if I had no attachment to the dog and it was just a dog I was matching for someone else but didn't breed, raise, and school myself it would be different but one that I went to the top with like Ken and Tornado I don't think I could let my dog die I am sure if Tornado and Queen went toe to toe someone would have to make that choice and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

 

yes i am calling them scumbags and i look up to no one. its not about my views its about common decency period. dog cant win pick him up, heslosing leaving him down to die is fucked up no matter what spin u put on it

 

Great post nas!...alot of dogmen love their hounds...every dog man I know does love them and I'm pretty sure the old greats felt the same about theirs but when u are in the sport u have to have a rational bond with them!...u can't love them like u would love a child, a mother, a brother unless u are using him as a pet....if u are a sports type of person and u are loving ur dogs that deep then u will cause more harm to urself and to the dogs, it makes no sense sending a dog to the box that u luv like a member of ur family...keep him home and cherish him...their is line that has to be drawn if u participate in the sport...some have it, some don't.

 

Or there is an in between..

 

Crush like I said if a dog is just over matched and keeps trying then I would and have picked up.Now if the dog is in the heat of battle and they are swapping it out in a toe to toe war then I just encourage my dog on and let it fall where it falls.I am saying guys that just leave a dog down to take a killing is a scum bag to me.So I don't see what is so unsportsman about that view.I just prefer to preserve a good game dog for breeding.I have already lost my money.I'm retired now but it was always about the dogs and gameness for me. The all time greats like who are u referring to.They are not God.So I don't give a shit what u or anybody else thinks because I owe u shit. I owe my dogs when they perform up to my expectations,not anyone else s.'

 

Picking up is and will always be a touchy subject, pick up to soon and u bring home a cur to late a corspe. Now in a all out war with a overmatched Deep Game dog that possibly will go out dead game the choice is on the handler to decide, now if a hound has taken a whipping and can t be saved and goes out like a bulldog congrats to those u owned him. The real problem is most so called dogman don t know what a deep game dog is and their pride does nt allow them to pick up. Most not all want hard mouthed high abilitly curs, honestly sad as it is to say no one wants a Game dog, the agruement will be why would i want to be in there 2hours when ole Killer can get it done in 20mins? This is way off topic but hey. I like both types of dogs, pick up your dog when its clear he is nt gonna quit and have him for the program but in the heat of battle handlers just like their charge feel they r winning even when loseing. Yis Ole Man

 

What do you consider a rational bond ? I don't know these men personally but it looked like Gambler's Virgil was more than just a box dog from the video I have seen of him I would say he was a pet outside the box just an ordinary house dog that looked like any other pet. When they are outside the box they are not all in a yard some of them would be indoors and even slept on the couch. I have seen footage of ken and tornado she was pretty well mannered bitch I would even say she was house trained based on what I saw of her she was a pretty mellow bitch outside her work place. See I think having a strong bond with a dog will make the dog work harder for it's handler in and out of the box there is no shame in loving them and treating them like family as long as you know when it's time to separate the two but it has it's advantages and the dogs remember that shit. These dogs by nature are so loyal to a fault it's a shame they don't always get the same back from their owners . I know plenty of dog men loved the breed and the dogs I don't doubt that for a second I have seen the pictures and videos I saw the love some of those guys had for their dogs. I think it's extremely honorable for a dog man to save his dog and pick it up when circumstances call for it rather than let it die. I know there were plenty of dogs who were picked up and that to me says something about how those men felt about the dogs. I think a dead game dog should be a rare thing leaving overmatched dogs down to die is just shitty IMO I can't agree with it I can respect a truly dead game dog but that is really very rare.

You see if I didn't know these dogs or anything about this breed I would think they were just regular pets with their owners I see nothing wrong with having a very strong bond with these dogs I think the more you give to them the more they will give to you it's just the make up of the breed hell they are loyal even when they shouldn't be.

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And some more of Tornado right before her show looks like just a regular pet I am sure Ken put in some work with this dog just by how she acts you can tell she was exposed to the indoor life often.

My point is man has a stronger bond with his animals than even he is aware of.

 

Sadie....Virgil, tornado, llantas, are rare dogs...all of them will not be house dogs!...u just don't understand and u may never understand!

 

No I understand that not all will be house dogs I am just pointing out that some were and some were more than just box dogs outside the box. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong but I think there is something to be said for a handler who has a strong enough bond with his dog and that it's clearly obvious that these men placed some value on them and maybe saw them as just dogs outside their work place. I have even seen one box dog can't remember it's name but he had a birthday cake made for him and he was sitting at the table with the cake and a candle in it with a birthday hat on some straight fur mommy shit but the dog was a box dog if anyone knows the dog I am talking about please post the picture . Treating them like family will not ruin them or make them any less of a bulldog or box dog and it's nothing to be ashamed of and you can say dog men shouldn't treat them like pets or place value on them but some did and some had very strong bonds with their dogs and I can almost bet it made them much better workers!

 

Oh and then there was Jeep he was laid to rest with his own tomb stone that sends a message to me about how the handler felt about his dog to lay him to rest that way the truth is it's easy to love these dogs they have some very lovable qualities and you can't do anything but love and respect them for what they are capable of as they are very unique and there is a lot of work put into making them great dogs they are not born Ch's or GR CH's someone had to put in the work to get the dog to where it is so I would say the owners have a lot to do with it and whatever they put into the dog is what they will get from the dog.

 

truth is you will never understand, sometimes dog men make mistakes and get caught up and dont pick upo when they should it happens but bet ur ass they regret it later, ask any dogman what his biggest regret is and most say not picking up when they should of hgargroves said harold sorrels said it fat bill said it, traildriver said it, and many more these men are men i consider dogmen they make mistakes and may have done some things wrong but they recognzize there mistakes. so you my friend are the one who does not get it

 

I love this hunting rifle, in fact its my favorite....

But because i love it so much i dont think ill use it cuz i dont wanna break it!

 

it's a good thing they didnt stop making rifle after they made yours. now go enjoy your hunting lol.

 

It was a metaphor ben lol,

Im sayin if u aint gonna set it down, why pick it up?

 

LMAO reread till it sinks in. the combine has two threads about the topic at hand. "$ or D" and "picking up".

 

U sayin my rifle sucks! Lmao........jerk lol