REAL HISTORY OF A LVING LEGEND (reprint)

Lmao see you still can't admit that you may be wrong!!! Anything could happen but it's more probable that I'm right! That's what I'm talking about right there and this will be my last post on the subject. We will never know the truth because the question was never asked while the ones who really knew the truth were here. We know for sure that 3 people, HH, ET, FB knew the truth. Conveniently two of those were never asked while they were here and you say there is no point in asking the third so it should be a moot conversation. I have a lot of gut feelings and speculation about how this whole shit got started but seeing as how it's just gut feelings and speculation I won't even talk about it because in the end gut feelings and speculation without proof is just a bunch of bullshit. But at some point you have to come to the realization that this whole thing could have been proved or disproved in the early 60's but wasn't brought up until the late 80's...... So using all the knowledge that we have of the events I'd have to say that if DM didn't feel the need to sort it out 50+ years ago then why should YOU, ME or ANYBODY else feel the need to carry this shit on??


March isn't the only month for Madness!!

 

Cajun im the only one here who has said anything can happen , but imo yes the real question is what is the more likely reality of it? All you do is avoid giving your honest opinion , but bang on about why don didn't say it then, when I already explained why that might be , but you want any excuse to not have to admit I might be more right than wrong , and if you don't give a damn about it now, then why post about anything , this is a relatively important historical story but you don't care, ,yet you care enough to defend Floyd and bash don , and the proof is the dobs and floyds own words and dibos history which neither me don or the man on the moon invented Floyd did , so why cant you admit that it might be possible that Floyd lied and maybe stole the pups to start his now famous eli line , it shouldn't be all one way from me Cajun .

 

After reading your so called proof 100 times over 20 something pages I do not and never will think your beliefs are likely.Possible but not likely.I also believe every dogman of that era lied.Probably multiple times when it came to these dogs peds.You just have a hang up on your heros failures as a breeder.I think its called reaching.If that gives you a sense of worth by all means keep beating that drum for another 20 pages.Try to keep your bullshit to these two threads though.Keep bumping them up.In other words dont fuck anymore threads up if you can help yourself.

 

"what a bunch of fags"............lol

 

I thought all fags were only concerned about how Ed Farons dogs are bred.Is that just in California?

 

I'm officially convinced that you just type shit for the hell of it and don't read anything! Lmao I'm not defending or bashing anyone, I doing just like you, forming an opinion from the minute details we do know. And the reason I say I don't care is because when you go back that far into a pedigree it has little bearing on a dog that is alive now. To you it makes sense that he was quiet for 25-30 years and then started speaking when it was just his word against another's, to me it doesn't. You value your opinion as fact and others opinion as false, but in reality they are all opinions


March isn't the only month for Madness!!

 

no, theyre just online talkin about em.....

 

no not evry dogman lied..
there is/was difference .....

 

agustus if you say my belief about billy is unlikely but possible, what is your reason to say that, ? what doesn't make sense about billy not being out of dibo, if you have looked at the facts we all have to hand, and are not going to dispute the known history on dibo , then tell me what makes you think its unlikely rather than likely ,other than you dont want it to be true ? put some meat on the bone.
As for my reason being that I want to make up for dons failure as a breeder, that's showing what little you know about the history of these dogs and who played a part in forming some of the better familys out there, and if you think Mayfield needs my help to give him the respect he deserves as a breeder then you are very wrong .I said it before , don never needed to ask Floyd to breed to floyds dogs back in the time of billy did he, but it seems like Floyd needed these pups from crybaby to suddenly make a mark on the game, that up until that point he had not really made , and not with dogs like scrub .Other men like hammonds /Patrick and more serious dogmen have used dons line to base their own familys off, and if you think he was a failure that's your opinion, but ask yourself this, agustus, if don had for a minute believed billy was bred as Floyd said he was, then knowing how don based his line on nigger, don't you think he would have bred to billy himself if he thought billy was this double bred son of dibo ? but he didn't , and to me and anyone with a grasp of common sense knows why and if making an argument for something that you don't like is fucking up threads in your opinion then maybe you should try making a better case for me to shut up with some better theories of your own.

 

Cajun you keep saying why did don wait 25 yrs or more to say something about it, well he said it himself, back then when he realised tht Floyd had screwed him on eli , then he just left it at that, he couldn't prove it like we could today with dna, but he knew for his own satisfaction that those pups had not died, and that is that.Don only said anything publically after floyds interview in the times , so thers why he decied to say something , ,but of course you overlook that don't you .
Now if you use that as an excuse to make the facts less realistic in regards to billy , then that's your perogative, and if you don't care about it that's ok Cajun, but you saying that is like someone with an interest in whodunits not wanting to know who the murderer was, it doesn't make sense that any of us wouldn't like to know how some of these dogs that have dubious historys about their true peds
are really bred, it may not make any difference to you , but its for the interest of the story , like all the other storys on this forum about dogs .
As for my opinion being fact as you say, that's your opinion of it, I only put it out there and yes I believe theres more possibility of it being true than not true ,but not becasue I just blindly believe it, but because the facts or the information we all have to look at if we want to , leads me and most folks with a good pair of eyes to the same conclusion that something doesn't add up at the very least , and in the end Cajun if your happy to believe Floyd that's fine , but if your going to say my belief is wrong , at least give a reason for it based on similar facts to make me rethink it .

 

You should look at the timeline of events and rethink it. Your wearing rose colored glasses and taking everything you see as supporting your version as truth and paying no attention to all the signs of it being bullshit. Lmao you keep saying that he didn't say anything for so long because he and FB were good friends lol, if your friend stole your pups and lied to you about it, would you go the next 25 years saying ahh I don't care that's my friend, NO! But if you wanted to make a bullshit claim it would help your case to wait until there is no one to refute that claim, YES! Your overlooking the few things on the subject we know for sure and painting your own picture of how you were told things happened.


March isn't the only month for Madness!!

 

Cajun I have looked at the timeline and because of that im saying what I believe is the more likely the truth , what have you seen in the timeline that gives you reason to think im wrong or as you say it being bulshit? its very easy to make a claim without ever adding your own theory of it.


As for don and Floyd being friends , well before the crybaby deal they were , that's my point ,when don said himself he knew in his gut for sure when Floyd turns up at pitside with eli 2 yrs later , that his suspicions were confirmed, but as you say how could he prove it, so he just let it go and they were never as close as before after that, so you going on about it as if that is somehow proof of it being bullshit, is rather riddiculous.


Have you ever asked yourself why don never ran to breed to billy before they fell out? no I bet you didn't , seems odd doesn't it when don was trying to get as close to the old henry blood via tudor which he did later with nigger, but why if he for a second believed billy might be bred as papered did he not breed to a double bred son of dibo that had shown game by all accounts ? I tell you why cos he wasn't that's why, and if you knew how don was about his breeding , you would know that he would have bred to billy in a heartbeat if he thought it was true.


As for me overlooking things maybe I have ,but you saying it but not telling me what I have overlooked is very easy to do isn't it Cajun, if I have overlooked something its not for the lack of looking , so I will be very interested to hear from you exactly what it is that I need to rethink regarding the timeline and these other things you say im overlooking, and trust me Cajun , if they have merit I will be the first one to say ok maybe I missed it , not like you gyus , and you call me rose coloured lol, when its you Floyd lovers or don haters that wear the darkest shade of glasses from what I can see by your lack of arguments , but I wait in hope of better from ones you all.

 

Has anyone except the all knowing cik ever seen or know the actual DOB for Blind Billy? All I've seen is the interview that only gave the year, and which I'm told was done over the phone and penned by someone for whom English is his 2nd language. Leaving plenty of scope for a misquote or misunderstanding to occur, considering the Cajun accent. I once see a published dob for one mine 10 years before she was born. Cik would take that literally as my own words.

If Billy's pedigree is false then the fault for that lies squarely with E Tudor. Since he never said so to Mayfield in their many recorded conversations and visits that Billy's ped is fake I'm inclined to believe it's validity. All I see is Boudreaux acquiring a dog and saying it's bred as he was told when he got the dog. Just like any of us do when we get a dog.

As for the so called facts on Billy's pedigree. What facts are there apart from the interview? I see more evidence that Dibo is Billy's sire rather than not. Heinzl said so in an article he penned. JH said he owned a sister to Blind Billy and that she was sire by Dibo. He said D Maloney told him to get the gyp. To me that's 3 different people saying Blind Billy was sired by Dibo. One owned a littermate, the other two as close to Earl as anyone.

 

Your ignorance is bliss. You've been offered various theories that hold as much truth as yours or more yet you can't accept those. How many other dogs supposedly were stolen from DM and he never got his credit for??? It sure is funny how all the greats were stolen from you yet you never produce another of that caliber. I can throw rocks and hit good dogs down from FB breeding, you Definetly can't say the same about dogs from DM breeding. Women lie men lie the dogs don't. I believe it was DM himself who said the test of a dog is the pit but the test of a family of dogs is time...... Time is speaking loud and clear about which families have stood that test


March isn't the only month for Madness!!

 

blueboy im sorry if my coments are seen as knowing it allas you say, I certainly believe it what I say based on the information , but if someone posting what they believe is knowing it all then maybe others should try to prove the information wrong which leads me to my belief shouldn't they.


As for you sayimg that maybe the year is wrong , as maybe it was written down incorrectly by the editor of the times, well anything is possible but I think Floyd has said it a few times so im gonna say the dob he gave is probably the one you will find of the adba papers .


As for saying that earl is to blame for the false ped on billy , this could also be true, but that would mean billy is not bred as papered also ,which would still make him faked, but I don't believe earl faked the ped, because I don't believe Floyd got the dog from earl in the first place, and im betting that if the adba showed us the original paperwork for billy ,it would probably show Floyd as the one who sent in the papers not earl tudor or heinzl , so why the fact that earl might have faked the ped make you believe it less is contradicting yourself, if its faked its faked right , I mean whats the difference , if earl faked it that means billy untrue bred ,but I don't believe tudor would have done that whats the point but if it makes you feel better about Floyd not knowing billy was not bred as papered then ok.


As for the facts that you ask about , apart from the Floyd interview lol well sorry so far you have decied upon yourself to discard a dob that Floyd gave and his own words in an interview , which I nor don had anything to do with , but you don't want to use those lol right ok so what do you want to use as a means of making our minds up on a very famous dogs breeding if not the facts given to us by Floyd .


Also you say you see more evidence that dibo is billys sire than not, and you claim heinzl said this in an article , well I would like you to show this article , then you say jh said he had a sister to billy ,but that's no proof and certainly no more than what we have already , just because jh may have said he had a sister to billy does not make them bred as the ped shows , as that sister if the dob is correct on billy and I hope your not going to tell us that dibo was now born in 1950 to help make it possible to have sired billy and this sister , as dibo as you will know from having read the story of his fame ,you will also know that he wasn't bred until after tudor got him when dibo was at least 2 yrs old and some say maybe going on 3 yrs old, which even at two years old , would make it impossible for him to be the sire to billy or any full sister ,and if your idea of better facts to prove dibo was his sire can over come that little mountain , im all ears ,but until then what you have is what you accuse me of having which is hearsay , and if all you need is someone saying it to be true ,then what about all the ones who said they didnt believe eli was out of scrub x candy , would you believe them ? even if its as plain as the nsoe on our faces that eli is in no way related to scrub x candy , but out of crybaby, some folks cant accept it cos theres no actual proof only a very strong suspicion based on the events back then ,and that's fine, I tend to use my brain to make my choice based on what seems likely and looking at the yard of dogs Floyd had pre and post eli to know what I need to know, some need confirmation from Floyd , otherwise they wouldnt even consider it could be true ,even if their eyes ears and nose tells them hell they don't look right.


As for the many recorded conversations with earl , I know don had around 450 audio tapes of all the dogmen and others he talked to over the years, now how the hell would you know if you have not heard every one of them what he may or may not have asked earl while on them or not, stop looking to make excuses for it , yes anything is possible, maybe Floyd never knew and it was earl fault, who knows , but until we can disprove the dobs and find out that dibo was bred before 1 yrs old on henzls yard , then I believe we have to accept that billy and any litter mates registered out of that litter are very unlikely to be bred as papered.

 

Cajun you have not put one coherent theory to me as yet, and neither has anyone else, althought there has been as few what if scenarios , which I have even said out of fairness could be possible if other factors could be disproved, so just for me please tell me your theory that makes mine less solid thank you.


Now I see you cant resist going for don with this he thouhgt any good dogs was his, as to somehow deflect attention away from billy lol or the very idea that don never produced goods dogs, which shows you know very little about the dogs to say that, and isn't ironic how if we could prove it once and for all the true breeding of eli, and it showed what even you I suspect believe but cant admit , is that crybaby x cotton are the true sire x dam ,and that all these good dogs that Floyd produced after eli came with dons intial help , how that would kill you don haters wouldn't it, tell me why didn't Floyd ever produce anything of note pre eli? or an eli before from all those billy dogs ? of course the same type of question you ask about don you have no answer for yourselves about floyds yard pre eli, but believe this Cajun , without don there would be no pat Patrick no Hammonds and no Floyd the legend as he is today withouit that eli litter , and more besides who bred and used dons blood to build their yards up , now im waitng for this great revalation I missed that you told me, so make sure you dont hide it amongst your usuall drivel about don, give me some facts about billy that can show me the dobs are wrong and that dibo was bred on heinzls to Minnie before one yrs of age , because if I missed that then im sorry but im pretty sure you nor anyone else has shown me anything to prove that, which is the only thing that would categortically give Floyd a way out of this, not hopefull excuses by the Floyd devotees , so please Cajun just for me as im not as sharp as you , tell me your theory in detail thank you .

 

If your purpose is to give credit where credit is due...then who gets credit? The person who raised the gyp or the person who bought the grown bitch an then just breed her? Don got Crybaby from Evelyn as a adult bitch. Don stuck two dogs together nothing more...that if you can convince ppl Eli is off crybaby.
Ok so Don had his hands on tombstone when he conditioned the dog. He didn't select the bitch's Pat breed him to nore did he tell Gary how to breed his dogs. So other than Don owning crybaby and conditioning tombstone he can't claim the credit an you can't "give"' it to him after so many year of those men selecting who an what to breed on their yards.
Don's breeding theories were unsuccessful based off his words "the test of a family is time". His family didn't past the test. No entirely his fault as he was depending on others to put in work.
CIK do you know if the paperwork on Billy was sent into the ADBA before or after ET an HH died ?
Just to add insult , Gary took the curs(as Don claimed) from the TX dogman an breed a better family than Don could with the dogs from the core of Tudors family. FACT !
Wonder what family DB was using after Tiger Dan....oh shit I could be wrong but didn't DB breed PitGeneral? How come Mr. Stockton doesn't get credit for his dogs while in Don's hands?

 

Lol damn yous are some long winded mofos. :lol:

All that typing and we are still no closer to knowing the truth.. Go figure.

 

Bones my purpose was to have a conversation which might lead us all to the truth or as near as we can get to it, and that truth will shows us who deserves any credit or not, but if crybaby x cotton were the real sire and dam to eli and that litter, then of course the breeder should get the credit, who else should get it ?


As for apt /gary and others who were lucky and were able to get their hands on a good bred dog of tudor breeding that helped them get on the map, and if you think gary was making a name or himself from the other dogmens curs before that time your mistaken bones ,even pit general who don didn't breed , but made famous was of that same family from nigger, you see its that family and those genes that were the trigger or catylist that made so many of the other familys better, and whether it was from dons own yard or other mens yards like Maloney or greenwood and others who ran a heavy tudors dibo line of dogs, that's the point here, to believe what the dog peddlers out there want people to believe about dons dogs and others whos dogs were important to their own lines, but would tell you otherwise to keep you from getting some yourself, so its always best to look for ones self than take someone elses word for it , because I can tell you that many of the dogmen whos peds don't show a drop of dons or other like bred dogs in their dogs, have it in their ,but you may not see it in the peds from those days , whether its eli or others ,but its in there just under another mans name , so bones don't be so selective with what you want to believe, most will tell you what they want you to believe when talking about breeding ,and especially about dons dogs, but look for yourself and its easy to see his influence in the game of breeding .

 

So I geuss DM is the only person that has a wand to magically produce dogs, otherwise according to your theory everything he did should be credited to the men he got dogs from


March isn't the only month for Madness!!