Responsible Peddling?

bb- sorry this is off topic, bro but this thread's gone outta control


michele - you to seem like one of these folks with an agenda. i'll be a bit more polite, but you sang the same damn tune when you showd up here, and ppl were screaming AR AR AR!!! like you were the black plauge. you laid low, shut up, and now try and stick up for folks who need to be told these things and learn.

do you all band together in an underground network, and flood sites so you can try and bait ppl into saying things? b/c it seems like that's what's happening.

all these fishy, tree-hugging, "i got my tampon pushed in to far," i-wanna-make-my-dog-a-person humaniacs (sorry pp, i stole that word from you) show up, ask ?s, and when they get a straight answer, they get pushed back on their heels and go into defense mode.....i justdon't know about you all.

 

I'd like to know the same thing. i once saw 23 litters advertised for sale at the same time on his website. there are 14 now. same as boiboi no desrepsect just would like someone to logically answer the question he is posing.

 

HEY!! How would you know what it feels like to have a tampon pushed up too far?? And what in the world makes you think all humaniacs are tampon wearing chicks? Some wear pads, some are on the pill & some are sissy boys!

And I would like an answer to Boi's question too. It is one I have pondered myself & would like to see an answer.

 

And that is the bottom line there.

 

That's the whole point....there should be no crap litters and only a couple quality litters.
I guess it's ok if you think dog fighting is ok.
Cause he sure as hell isn't breeding these dogs to be childrens pets. 280 dogs a year give or take a few of which 75% or more will never live to see 5 years of age. Now the people who so strongly feel it is ok to breed animals just to possibly kill because they didn't turn out like you hoped would be the first to scream if people started bashing in their childrens heads because at 3, 4 or 12 years of age their kids weren't what they thought they would be.
But you see these dogs are living, breathing, feeling creatures and should not be bred just to see how the litter will turn out and if you don't like what you get cull em.

There is a kennel with a RIP page on their web site. Dog after dog after dog died of a stomach blockage. Chewed a blanket put in dog house on a winter night, $hit some from eating the damn dog house. This kennel sold these dogs to what they say are responsible people and they claim to be resposible breeders. But with all this responsiblity a great many dogs are dying on their chain spots alone. Dogs ranging in age from 3 months to a few years. I'm sorry but I don't see the reason for breeding these dogs....just to die.

I still haven't run across a truely reponsible breeder and the only small yard I have seen pictures of that if I were a dog I would not mind living in is Marty"s yard.

 

I don't think your 5 month membership here makes you an expert on anything...especially not who is and who isn't wearing tampons.

 

whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by the time you respond to the thread there are 4 or 5 more pages

 

The sad thing is you get crap in every litter. Heck, they bred 2 of the best dogs of modern times together - GR.CH. Zebo to CH. Honeybunch & I don't think they got anything out of it.

So TG has 28 litters per year. But he is still putting out just as much junk as the breeder breeding 28 litters every 3 years. Yeah, TG had better animals & thus better odds, but his percentile of junk dogs is going to be just as high b/c of the sheer volume he puts out.

As for putting down culls again for what seems like the 101st time, not all breeders kill culls.

And as for culling children, maybe it should be considered. Maybe we would have been less Hitler, less Dahmer, less Osama ... you get the idea.

 

I will attempt to give you a good answer. It will be from my POV of course, so feel free to disagree. Here goes:

I do not know TG personally, I did not know him when he started, and dont know the ins and out of his operation. So this is just a speculative thing.

If a man goes and buys good stock, breeds, say even several litters, and watches them, which is easy to do in the beggining, campaigns them, and when they show to have the qualities(some will go with one show, if it is a good one), many retire to breed and champ, some wait till grand champ. some will breed before just incase the dog is DG. Either way, only best to best, by watching a couple litters, he'll began to know which pairs produce, and which ones dont, and through the years, with his line in particular(by that I mean the line he is running), he can begin to have an educated shot at what he's gona get. Is it exact science? no, but it can get pretty predictable. So after a person has been doing this for 30 years, they kinda get a 6th sense about it. Some never develop it, others excell. For a person who has developed it, it would not be a stretch with a large yard that he/she knows intimately(very personal and well) to be able to set 30 breedings up in a years time and expect them all to do well. There will always be those that dont do well. And those that dont do well (I am speaking of match quality dogs)from a yard like this, would more than accell as a pet, or any other thing you can think of.

So I said all of that to say this, the responsible breeder part of it is in the making sure that out of standard, subpar animals are culled out of the yard. And I would be willing to bet that he culls pretty good. If he is a business man, then he knows that if he lets culls go out, it will kill his rep, and his business will go down. As to letting them go to onlye responsible people, that is another issue. Someone has already stated that he wont let them go to just anyone, so I am still in projecture.

On a side note, I am of the belief also that the more dogs you produce, if they have any salt to them whatsoever, the more champs you'll produce.

 

never said i was

i just calls em like i sees em

i see you're no expert, either

no one is an expert

i was just expressing my opinion as everyone else does on this forum.

 

OK, but does it make him an expert on how far one has to be pushed up to be pushed up too far? lamo...

 

LMAO maybe we should

 

I could have done w/o them, that's for sure! :rolleyes:

And from what I understand they start showing that freaky behaviour in childhood so ...

But seriously, you liberal types got us all wrong. We are for pro-life in that we don't believe in killing innocent children. But we are also for the culling of rejects, be they human or otherwise.

 

well then you haven't seen very many pictures

 

she is placing animals into a human category and therefore probably wont listen to logic or comon sense. probably an infiltrator.

ive been observing behavior for a while and am suspect of a few people and thier intentions here. id recommend people keep an eye on certain individuals around here. im sure no one fights their dogs on this website, but that doesnt mean someone cant make up lies and take your yard, we have all seen it happen already.

 

first off thanks for replying to my question. lots of that makes great sense. what i'm hung up on is all the dogs leave his yard when they are weined so how in the heck can he be culling the bad ones? once again....no disrepcet to TG or anybody else. i am trying to learn the process.

edit: unless you can spot a cull at that early of an age? can you?

 

Ok, i have a question....alot of people are saying that breeding subpar dogs is the wrong thing to do.That it doesnt better the breed and what not.Now, my question is what makes a dog sub-par?Not having papers?Im just curious, because regardless of who started breeding what line of APT...well they all had to start somewhereOtherwise their peds would go on forever right?Lol, i new to this whole scene...Another question i have is, what if i had a dog with outstanding conformation, could put most of the top pitbull weight pullers to shame,also with no papers, would you still consider a person wrong to breed their dog?Like i said, im new so if these questions sound dumb im sorry.Just curious, and im in the early stages of learning.For those of you that might ask....no i dont have a dog like the one i described.Or a neighbor with a pit either lol.

 

I am sure that he culled down to the producers he has, and I'd be willing to bet that he keeps tabs on a few to know how they are doin, and makes adjustments. I'd have to say that the culls from the yard, if it is anything like I would think it is, would be better than the champs in some areas. And I am not a Chinaman/Frisco fan. When I speak of culls from his yard, I am speaking of culls that are not match quality, fast lane dogs.

when I had my big yard, I had quite a few, weeded through and culled hard, after 10 years of running the setup like that, my dogs were producing very, very consistant. It's kinda like laying a foundation to a house, skimp on that, and the house wont stand. The issue is on the outcross. I havent seen a line that did not come to a place that an outcross was necessary, and that is the place that you will have to watch them for a few generations. Now, I am talking about a breeding program using in/line breeding. That issue can be brought to a minimum if a person has the space and finances to run two seperate lines, in the process culling the bad traits, and then when the cross needs to be made, there will be less junk in each line, and in couple generations, you'll be back on time. Does that makes sense to you? This is just how I ran my yard before the problem happened, and it worked very well. I am better at the breeding end of the stick than the conditioning. I wish I knew allot more about that area personally. I have always been amazed at how a good conditioner can work the dog to a science.

On my yard right now, I am trying several new things out to see where I want to go with, only time will tell. I have already seen in some what I reallly like, and some what I dont.

 

Zane, go to the adba web site and look for the breed standard, that is a good starting place. Second. I personally dont care about the 'papers', but I do care about the ped. You could have a wonderful dog, full of crap recessive genes, that when bred will produce a mixture of pee licking dogs. But yes, if you culled hard, for many generations, eventually you could end up with some nice ones, potentially. But if you have no idea of standard, how will you know what to cull? You would save time(which is precious) and money by going to a reputable breeder and getting a show nuff bulldog, instead of getting a $50 newspaper 'pit'.

Start here:
http://www.apbt.info/tiki-index.php?PHPSESSID=73e1cbd4cd6557492bf4af948e76eb05

Read the whole thing, then come back, and you will be heads and tails above where you are at now, and I'll be you perspective will change!

 

Depends upon what you call an early age. Is one year considered and early age? 3 months? 2 years? You can tell somethings pretty early, some alittle later, etc. If you know what you are looking for, either you will see it, or you wont. I personally will give a dog plenty of time, and wont cull it till I see something I dont like, not cause I dont see it. I dont cull cold dogs. Some do. I have had cold dogs produce real good ones.