Ruined??

I say, we will never know what our dogs "want" to do, so let's keep them safe.

Let's take every precaution to ensure they are safe and loved. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Jaime

 

I will agree, we will never have a canines mind, or thought-concept. We can only guess at what they wish to do, by the manner they so willingly do it (if we allowed them to). Since its illegal, it doesn't much matter, but we must always keep in mind, that just because we do not want them to do something, doesn't mean they don't want to.

And I also agree that owning a canine, involves loving and caring for it, as much as it does for you. If you do not fully-love your animals, its a waste of your time, and their time, to acquire them and neglect them of this human-canine relationship.

 

What an awesome thread!! I believe that this thread can really educate a new person to the breed,,,,you all kept it so civil.

ABK-hope your dog is doing better,,,watch that can food-runny doo-doo
accidents will happen,,even to the most seasoned person.
a working breed loves to do what they do,,period. dogs get into trouble when they are stagnet.

 

I just want to give a thanks to Rock for his participation and hard work on this. Points to you bro. And not only that I just got to see what happens when you get over ten bars of another row starts. lol just kidding you deserve them. Thanks.

 

Jamine who has freewill? You? If you really think about this you will find out that no one has a freewill. The point is if you have a male and your neighbor to and if there is a hole in the fence....well you know what would happen. It would happen if you and your neighbor had a Rottweiler or a Wolfe or a alaskan Malamute or of course a Bulldog. That is freewill. And then you would run out, scream, hit the dogs put whatever in her eyes.......and that is cutting the freewill. Jamine I can understand you, dogfight is a hard bone but you have to understand that this dogs have the dogfight as her genetic-task. Greyhounds have the race-track as her genetic-task . A special kind of working-dog will vanish if you dont care about his genetic-task. The dog dont has to win in the box....its enough if he dont give up, then he is proven, thats all a dogman want to see and believe me many times you can see a dogman cry in a match so true dogman speak of sweat and tears to pay for a good kennel. You think in our kind of civilization there is no place for this kind of selection and that is a bad mistake because only a short step forward and this civilization will be washed away....and then we need exactly this kind of dogs.

 

Scheissefeuer! Das Statment ist sehr gutes!

 

you know the only thing i want to ask is if you're gonna talk all your shit why in the heck did you make your name what it is???? am i the only one who noticed this?

 

Jaime - You are a very sweet, yet very misguided person.

Culling does not mean killing. Culling simply means to remove a dog from the genetic pool. The can be done by euthanizing the dog or it can be done by having the dog altered & placed in a pet home. Some fanciers choose to have their culls euthanized for safety reasons. Others meanwhile choose to have their culls spayed or neutered & given another chance at life.

Now there are some situtations in which a cull is always killed - if it poses a threat to humans for example or has a genetic defect that will diminish it's quality of life. But are all game dogs killed if they don't made the grade? Far from it.

Have you read any of the old match reports? Finley's Bo quit on all 4s & his owner took him home & gave him another try. Same thing w/ Rascal. Same thing w/ many of the game dogs of yore.

Now in today's day in age fanciers are a little tougher on their stock, but to say a dog has to choose between life & death is a fallacy.

Why? Because as you yourself noted, dogs do not have reasoning skills. So the dog who is standing there taking the count in his corner is not thinking "Hmmmm. If I go across that dog will bite me again. But if I don't go across I will be killed. Boy, I'd better go across!"

There is no reasoning there & the dog is in no way whatsoever aware of any consequences of standing the line. Since the dog is not aware in any way of the consequences of it's choice, it cannot be forced & that only leaves the dog w/ complete freedom of will.

As for dogs wanting to be in the house, yes, dogs want to be in the house. I chain & rotate & almost all my guys will run you over to get in the house. It's the nature they inherited from the wolf. They want to be where their pack is & due to the nature of the breed their pack is not canine, but human. So where humans are, the pit bull wants to be also.

However ... that doesn't mean they still won't fight. When I was first getting started in the breed I had several fights break out in my house, one so severe a bitch was almost killed right in my hall way.

And as a side note, many dog fighters brought their dogs in the house. GR.CH. Pool Hall Red was a house dog. Centepede was brought in the house & the great Maurice Carver was said not to have only brought his dogs in the house, but it is implied he kicked his wife out of the bedroom so the dog could sleep with him!

Jamie - again, I know you mean well. But you are condemning ppl concerning a subject in which you know little about. Perhaps it would be better for all involved if you would place your zeal in a more needed area or at least took the time to get to know a subject well before you condemn it or those who were involved in it.

But I will say this - I am very impressed w/ the fact you stayed around & continued a dialogue, even w/ those who were tough on you. That shows a willingness to learn on your part, or a least a willingness to teach, even if your lesson matter was a bit off the mark!

As for the pup - she is doing much better. I put her out to use the bathroom this morning & when I didn't come to let her back in right away she barked to be let back in the house. So even though her lips are still a bit swollen, I went ahead & put her back on her chain space.

I figured if she is well enough to bark at me, she is well enough to be back outside.

When I took in her the kennel yard only one of my Dobes was out. I took the pup outside she ignored the Dobe. The Dobe started toward her decided against it & trotted off. As the Dobe trotted off the pup tried to go after it. No barking or growling, but she did try to run after it.

Lest anyone ask - I had the pup leashed of course, only one Dobe was out & my Dobes are voice trained, so there was no risk of an altercation.

As soon as I put her in her kennel, she tried pushing herself back out that hole in the fence again. I put her in a more secure kennel & the first thing she did was run to the door. I think she wanted back in the house! :p

Once kenneled, I put her on her chain (once chained she could no longer reach the kennel door BTW) & she just wandered back & forth. Usually she would be running around her chain space like crazy, but she was just walking, sniffing the ground. This may be perhaps b/c I put her in a kennel other than her own.

The Dobes went to the other end of the kennel once they saw she was in the yard.

So I *think* things will be OK, but I am still taking things one step at a time.

 

glad to her things are looking up for your pup!

 

Your half crocked! You dont know half what you think you do. To draw the crazy ass parralells you have on this thread shows exactly what type of charactor we as a group are dealing with.

I appreiciate your honesty with your experiences ....but your experiences dont make it written in stone as fact. Your experience is limmited.

I wouldnt place a rescue in the care of you. For obvious reasons, and if you have to ask why.

I detest that free willy mentality ....besides look at what they did to that whale.

 

You humanize your animals.

 

You mean the whale evil greedy humans used to make a killing of a profit off of & then literally killed it by depriving it of the life it was meant to have?

 

that's the problem with this breed as well as other breeds or animals. Sometimes they are not pets to our best efforts.

You humanize these animals

 

You get out of my head....LMAO

 

To me, their love of the fight is probably that of a selfish one. To be the champ, the victor, the tough guy. For bragging rights. For the spotlight. Even if it's just for their own self glory, that is nothing like a dog.

Well, you are wrong. I am a woman who trains with fighters and the ones who sign-up to train just so they can tell their friends how cool they are quit fast because it's hard work. If you're not into it for the right reasons, there's no way you will stick with it. The ones who are truly passionate about it don't do it for the spotlight either, most of them are pretty reserved. And it is EXACTLY like the dogs. I think the two have a lot in common because there is some kind of inner desire to do it. Humans don't come from breeding programs, and they are certainly not forced into it, it's just enjoyable for some.

They don't know what the spotlight is. They only know what we as humans have taught them. That makes it our responsibility to protect them.

I completely agree that they don't always know any better, just like kids. That we are responsible for their safety, to protect them, and do what's best for them. It is a very fine line in the world of working animals. Animals put their lives on the line in a lot of different jobs they do. Athletic animals suffer a lot of injuries. I like to use the example of thoroughbreds again, they want nothing more than to do what they were bred to do and even though their owners may take good care of them and invest a lot of $ into their care and training, they often are injured from competing. Many of them are put down because their injuries are so severe. ALMOST always I blaim the owners/trainers/handlers, because many times they will run the horses when they know they should not. That is stupid, selfish, and costs them in the long run. It happens far too often. The very best horses are the ones who will run with their heart more than their legs, and it is the caretakers job to aknowledge that. It's the same with a good dog, and it's the same with humans (why some have to throw in the towel).

 

ABK-glad to hear she is doing better! how long has it been now? lol, feels like weeks... ha ha

 

Which only re-enforces my point that she should go back outside as soon as she is physically healed. She needs to be back on the yard, outside where she can exercise, and get back to her normal routine.

Too many people these days treat/think of their dogs as children. Dogs are NOT children. You can love your dogs, give them outstanding care but treat them like DOGS. When you treat them as spoiled children they are going to act they same, only when they act up it could have very wrong reactions.

 

Riptora: Thanks! it has only been about 5 days, but it does feel like weeks doesn't it?

LadyRampage: Her bottom lip is still swollen on one side. Do you still think she should be outside? Usually I will wait until they were 100% healed up, but since she barked to be let in the house this morning & she has been running around the house like crazy, I figured she was well enough to be out. Any opinions?

 

You know your dog better than anyone, if you think she is ready to be out, I'm sure she is. A swollen lip is no big deal, especially since I know you are keeping a good eye on it!

 

I'd say she is ready to be out. With keeping an eye on the lip, making sure it doesn't get infected she'll do fine. If she is running around, she is ready to get some outside exercise. Good to hear she is doing so much better!!