Should the Game-Dog definition of Game/Gamess be updated?

Nope I didn't misunderstand you.

 

that is an interesting report you posted, and excuse me for not being quite up to par, but am i correct in saying that this suggests that dogs arent necessarily curring out when jumping the box, but just using problem solving skills to override behavior/instinct that has been bred into them in years? ive had this discussion with others about dogs that have been taken home and put on the chain which resulted in them doing some "thinking"......deciding they no longer want any part of this lifestyle not in the box, but at home healing. just a thought, and if im rambling, i apologize

 

look its pretty damn simple a bear can do the physical damage in 5min. that a dog can do in 2 hrs stamina is very important in the box because if a dog runs out of gas it dont matter how game he is but you can find out i short order if your dog is game buy watchin him scratch on a bear or bull that just wooped that ass in 5 min. gamness is the lack of self preservation that is instiled in most animals if you cant beat it run but in a game dog there is no such word as quit so it will either win or keep going untill unable to keep going now in some contests dogs have won before ever even showing gameness does that mean the other dog was a cur no it means he ran out of gas or was injured so badly that it was physically unable or he may have curred out trust me that wont happen with a bear because the dog is either gonna fight till you save him or gonna cur out... point is there were game dogs way before the [] did the box improve these dogs yes it added stamina and more athletisism so if your breeding for a good match dog the [] is the place for testing but if your breeding for 14 hogs one day 27 tusk wounds the smallest needing 14 stiches or a 428pound russian boar got your dogs intestines on the ground while he still shakes out that hold and you still gotta break him of with a stick GAMENESS im happy whith my dogs. 1/2 inch to 1 inch teeth are like pin pricks compared to a 5 inch tusk.

 

...if im following this thread correctly.....then its comes down to dumb game vs smart game...........a dumd game animal could take all it is given...without batting an eye lid......but this trait will buy you a one way ticket to doggy heaven in the box.........its clear that an animal bred to excell in the box needs more than gameness...............which begs the question what is really being tested in the box..??

 

have any of you read the history on our dogs. they were derived from dogs used for bull and bear baiting. those dogs were considered game. end of discussion it is that simple. gameness was around before the pit. so like iron hide said for the pit you need better athletes and gameness for a bull bear hog or whatever gameness can be shown but it is not necessary like it was when the animaly were being baited. you can not argue these facts GAMENESS was around before the PIT.

 

You people flip flop around about 20 different topics and how dogs were used over a simple topic on if the word game or gameness should be updated well i will be damned all i see is nonsense and shit that most everyone should know in these post plain and simple "Game is the dog that won't quit fighting, the dog that'll die in the ring, the dog that'll fight with two broken legs" if you have seen one you know what it is fuck the description because if you dont know in the first place or arent teaching someone the true dogman game then it doesnt really matter what the definition is or how others describe it

 

i agree boze ........but the agument has moved on from simply a dumb game animal...willing to do anything no matter what the cost..........and im not aware of any serious bull or bear baiting....and that includes pakistan and its bourder regions..?

 

hate to break it to you ironhide bears are run off all the time in the wild. once a charge is gased out the only thing left in the tank is "game" for it to continue. in the past dogs have been destroyed in 5 min more then one time so what's your point? stamina is not inherited that's something you install in a dog. just because the sire/dame went 3h don't mean the offspring will automatically do the same. lots of factors involved in that. many a "cat",redbone,AB,cur, & mixes have taken a asskicking & still brought home the bacon. very rarely do catch dogs sustain injury like your talking about so don't use that as a crutch. the box ain't really about proving "game" it's about one dog whipping the next. but a dog can prove game along the way. you only need enough "game" to cross the finish line. deadgame makes for a good story that's it.

 

agame .......hillarious .....did you read that on this site..lol.....or in some old book..lol
the deepest game animals known to man never entered a pit...........we are discussing the nature of gameness purely for interest.........it is a little more compicated when you step back and think..............otherwise my post would have been the same as yours....in complete agreement with what you have just posted............but their is more to it than that.

 

yes i know and understand that

 

tigerlines - in old bull-baiting accounts, the handler would CUT OFF one foot of their dog, and if it continued to go after the bull, then it made it worth more. i've read accounts (yes multiple from different sources, same story) of a dog who had BOTH of it's front paws cut off and continued to scratch into the bull. one was of an old dog that went into the bull missing it's two front paws before the show, and the owner cut off both of it's back paws, and it crawled to it's death.

that's dumb game, a plug, whatever you want to call it. as close to game as you can get? maybe, but not worth two cents dead....

would you place a bet on a dog that was game but won't bring home the butter? no, you are a fool if you would.

so now this can branch into two different conversations -

one definition for those who fancy a game dog, and one definition of gameness for those who fancy a match dog. each fancier looks for something different, because if you prefer a match dog, you don't want the match to get to the point where gameness is the determining factor, because i doubt you want to go home with a dead dog and out your wager, or one so far gone you can't save it afterwards.

now i'm just rambling but some of the folks who post on here make for good conversation and it gets you thinking (or it should).

 

sorry if i came across as a bit of a dick...agame .....not wishing to diminish your understanding just hoping for insight...

 

didn't take it that way at all my friend

 

finaly you guys both get what im sayin as for your answer tigerlines i think gameness ability and stamina but for me a dog must be game powerfull and athletic i realize i give up some stamina for wieht but my dogs fight 100 to 450 pound animals i breed them around 50 to 75 pounds my dogs are ofrn by way of morgans/isikawas/ hemphill/wilder my prefered out is bass redboy jocko also like deacon that mix has been workin well for people in belgium and itali and i see why. look im not sayin my way is better than the other but it is game testing and after all isnt that whats most important speed stamina ability can be fixed but gamness is the hardest trait to reproduce i think most of the guys on here are combining gameness abillity stamina all into one and for there use they are right but dont tell me their dogs are more game....

 

hod man chef .....i agree ....the dispute is that the box is the only.....legitimate.....truest......purest.....best..........way to test the depths of a line ...breed ....dogs....gameness...this is a believe i have held for almost 20yrs...an still hold.....however..........the white elaphant in the room is thatthe original baiting dogs were the gamest of all hell............of all the mastiff breeds the english bulldog won his reputation world wide.....without equal....and he was never tested in the box..again i ask ....what is being tested in the box...?

 

you are mostly right exept when i test there is no plot hounds or bay dogs its one on one but 8,9,10 times in a row and you are wrong i use 90 to 120 pound hogs to test they are fast they bite they slash and are 5 to 15 time more powerfull than one dog and i'll be honest less likely to kill my dog he catches each hog works each hog and then is imediatly scratched on a fresh hog make no mistake he will be injured ive seen dogs be shook then rooted into the ground by bad hogs flatlined in an instant i just prove gameness not pit ability...

 

the depth of a mans knowledge is tested in the box. it's only about a W or L nothing else matters inside the wood. "i ain't beting my charge is more game then yours. im beting my charge will whip yours". that about sums what the box is good for.

 

...yes....yes ...yes... brockton..........a man after my own heart...lol...let the other dog prove his depths .......before you prove yours....total agreement.

 

willingness never to quit



Can be seen in swimming, climbing trees , etc. Comes from the history before pitting - however the invisible trait may still be here because of past pit dogs.

 

Gonna disagree it aint about yours whoopin mine its about SCRATCHING yours can whoop mines all night but if he aint gonna scratch what difference does it make thats why its gameness FIRST man they gotta scratch 2 win!!!