Steroids?

a dog either has it already or it doesn't. Tolerance to drugs doesn't have anything to with it.

 

the drugs arent gonna give you a better animal. if you want to go down that slippery slope then you have to make a rule that all the dogs have to get the same feed, same personal time, same keep, etc.... steroids are simply a tool to help a dog recover. not make the dog do anything its not capable of doing on its own.

 

I agree training methods are part of the sport but the effect steroids have on offspring and mating are undeniable. Unlike humans and human sports: animals are culled and bred/crossed. I know it's hard to let go of the positive impact they have on the animals strength. They also have an effect on aggression, but you're not breeding the naturally most talented/aggressive/gamest animals but rather the most tolerant to chemicals.

Feed and training methods naturally occur in the environment

roids don't.

 

i would have to strongly disagree... look barry bonds ...Mark mc guire .. think them guys would broke the record without drugs HELL NO ... it increase hormonne, increases oxygen , blood flow to the muscles , increase nitrogen retention.... it is every athletes dream drug .... and thats why so many put ther career on the line cause they know what anabolic steroids can do for a person/ animal in a competitive arena

 

Training methods happen naturally? Hounds work the flirt and spring without a human putting them in that situation?

I'm not even gonna start on the roid rage mess but aggression don't mean shit. Dog can be as fucking aggressive as he wants. See if he still acts that way after a hog walks over and grabs him by the damn nose

 

i didnt say anything about agressiveness ... you take the two same specimens and train them the same , eat the same , rest the same , and give one a low does of test prop and the other gets nothing ... guarantee the one with the test prop is gonna come out quicker /stronger , leaner ,no doubt hands down had an advantage .. see it all the time... why you think bodybuilders on the -pro circuit all use Anabolics? cause they need to to compete with the other thats using... throw someone in ther natural and he will get laughed at... and it would be the same on the pro level inallsports football, baseball, if it wasnt for the drug testing and risk loosing money

 

The aggression issue was directed towards ADM who brought it up.

As far as using roids, if you don't work out more its not just going to automatically add strength. Just taking it isn't going todo shit. Not to mention giving to dogs the exact same feed and putting the same keep on them doesn't mean much either. Each dog starts at a different level and react to keeps differently.

 

I understand and respect the viewpoint.

The natural discussion is a loaded one. So I redirect to the effect it may have on offspring and a breeding program. I do realize Barry Bonds and MarK McQuire enhanced their performance, but we are not looking to breed them and expecting the same results from their offspring. Steroids effect reproductive organs. Especially sperm

???

 

Good thread. A lot of good posts here

 

I'll agree that over use of roids can affect a dogs reproduction. Like cause a bitch to skip cycles or make it harder for her to take.

 

depending on what type of Anabolic you use onthe female , it can really cause havoc on the female reproduction sytem , just the whole female sytem in genral... Females are not suppose to have alot of testtosterone..... turns em into males. Yall ever seen on Nation Geographic about the female who wanted to become a man > so she started getting prescribed Testosterone Cypionate from the Dr. and she started putting on lean muscle mass, shaved her head and you couldnt even recognize her. crazy they will prscribe for that nutcase, but not for athletes.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITG-IbHEYEE[/ame]

I thought this was a descent doc about steroids... The man greg didnt get his arms to explode from steroids , it was a substance called "synthvol". Its basically oil you pup into your muscle and its suppose to widen your muscle fascia and in turn permantly make your muscle appear bigger. The guy pumped to mutch oil in his arms . But on guy on ther is 55 and has suffred 2 strokes . he dedicates them from steroids

 

thats a good documentary on drug abuse...key example of overdoing it

 

So what do u think would u allow it in professional animal sport's at all?

Or would you allow it under doctor supervision?

What would be the line to draw considering you would want to breed off the good stock.

 

If you want to use,take your dog out for a hunt or two first. Then juice it up and see if it makes a big difference. I don't know,but maybe then you have a good one without extra strenght and endurance.

 

Exactly...abuse and misuse of steriods are where most side-effects come from. That why you hear about most teens and amateur BB after a few years is because of that!

 

But like i said this guy greg's arms didnt get like this from steroids ... goes to show ya the media ... It is known around in the bodybuilding community , this guy arms gotlike this from synthvol and not steroids.... If you look at greg early in his career when he was on Anabolics he looked damn good . It is when he started touse the synthvol , his arms got all deformed and retarted looking.

 

I disagree,people aren't just snatching a 20min cur off the chain,juicing him him up,and taking him out.People that use roids on there dogs,and know how to use them correctly,should,and most likely already know,exactly what they have long before the time comes to use steroids.Aggression has nothing to do with it,and the only thing it will do is get a dog frustrated when he can't do what he wants,and then you know what happens next.They are taking the best they have and giving him an edge in his conditioning.Who cares what it does for reproduction,if there not your dogs,and your not getting dogs off them,what would it really matter?

 

I'm a new member but have read alot on this issue in the horse world. I PERSONALLY feel that the use of such drugs ( even on an everyone has access scale) would destroy the breed slowly but surely. I think eventually you could start to lose the traits that are naturally in the animals but that would be hidden due to the enhancing drugs. At SOME POINT the use of drugs could drop in popularity and the dogs left run the risk of being sub par compared to the dogs that you'd be starting with.

 

It's about the breed, that's why I care. This breed comes from working stock;champions and the like;tested animals from all over the world. What happens generations from now when we slide backwards? Breeding programs affect us all. Whether we like it or not?

Question being, if in a professional animal sport considering the affect that it has on reproduction and that a breed is based off it's champions: would you allow, support, condone or promote the use of steroids in animal sports?

I know it's unpopular to those who practice the sport legally around the world because of the performance benefits and how it is so engrained in keeps (training/conditioning)?

But do we need to make a hard correction in direction.?

 

I have to admit I agree. I am open to other viewpoints; but I can't see how it would help advance the breed.

I would love to hear the other side of the discussion, however, I can't see how it would do anything but cause a backslide in genetic selection.

Unlike training or feed; steroid introduction could never occur in the natural enviroment or without human introduction, where as:

running (treadmill)
proper eating (work vs eat time and food source)
chasing (hunting)... for the most part can

But even off the natural discussion because there are points about what is or isnt natural; steroids have a negative affect on reproductive organs and sperm even in small doses. Most keeps do not involve small/cosmetic doses...

Also at the very least benefits gained by steroids can not be and are defintely not passed on to offspring (the benefits don't even last once off the drugs).

Knowing this would you all, allow it in professional animal sports.