Training Fighters (Human)

Here's an article that I have just written on training fighters.

How Should Fighters Train? | Savage Strength BlogSavage Strength Blog

 

Great joice in career YAS...! I totally agree with strength training for boxers.I used to be a HUGE boxing fan until MMA really caught my attention.I feel it's much harder to stay on top in MMA,,,the fighters pretty much train year round where the old days boxer would take lots of time off in between bouts.The MMA fighters cover way more ground in a variety of different workouts.I love the MMA pre training as much as the fight.

 

Thanks bud, I prefer the sport of boxing but training wise MMA is light years ahead of boxing.

 

I used to really like boxing until I discovered mma..that and boxing has really gone downhill.

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Boxing is still pretty good, too much politics involved with all the money it makes.... Mma will prob be the same way in 15-20 years

Sincerely Yours, Cajun

 

Maybe so but I'm not terribly concerned with 15 to 20 years from now.

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I got ya, just saying my opinion as to why boxing went to shit. The money

Sincerely Yours, Cajun

 

The problem is that there's not many good American boxers especially in the heavyweight division, in the past if you looked at the top 5 heavyweights at least 2 or 3 would be American, so the public gravitates towards MMA where there are always top level US fighters. In the UK MMA is popular but still nowhere near as much as boxing, there are always British boxers with belts and although British heavyweights tend to be shite at the moment they're still better than their American counterparts. When tickets recently went on sale for the Froch v Groves rematch 60,000 tickets sold in less than an hour and so there were calls to make available another 20,000. I've been to some big fights (boxing) in the US but couldn't imagine anything selling anywhere near that well.

 

yas that was a interesting article, but i disagree with your ideas on boxing, the reason why old school trainers dont bother with weights is the fact it takes very little force to knock some one out, its the art of distance timing and leverage, in a game of skill and will.Not who can bench the most in the weight room.
Speed kills in boxing, and power is generated from the floor, transferred by the waist and expressed in the hands.
Jack dempsey wrote an excellent book on how power is generated in boxing, and he still to this day has the highest percentage of first round
knock outs in the heavy weight division, using old fashioned methods .
Mike tyson wasnt a bad knock out artist either using old fashioned calisthenics, and boxing training in the modern era. In fact he was probably the last great heavy weight of the modern era.
The old fighters had no problem going 15 rounds for a contest using old fashioned methods, even though they had to dehydrate and weigh in on the day, unlike modern fighters, and many of the, have phenomenal fight and ko totals, nothing today compares.
The reason why old school conditioners use long runs is that it not only builds and maintains aerobic capacity but it provides relaxation, regeneration and recovery, while allowing energy stores to be used for the specific technical skill work and sports specific strength conditioning.
They dont just run but use shuffles and multi changes of direction while throwing punches to meet the demands of a contest, they are not going
to be springing around at high intensity using the legs for 12-15rounds.
Boxing has always used intervals since the earliest of days whether runs or pad, bag skipping, work ect, but they are used and shortened as the contest approaches to bring all the the skill and conditioning work together to a peak.
The only truly anaerobic part of boxing is the amatuer game, which is why they focus on fat combos, muscular endurance short circuit training, and short runs and sprints. Professional boxing as a higher aerobic component.

You only have to look at the technical stand up of MMA, in comparison to boxing its very poor ,most of them wouldnt even compete with an average amatuer boxers in a boxing contest, for all their modern methods they use, they are no where near as skilled or as explosive as trained boxers in the stand up game.
Even the best of MMA relied on art skill and will with sports specific conditioning, such as Anderson silva, George st pierre, fedor, etc
MMA is dominated by American wrestling and moder American methods of conditioning being an evolution of that sport, but what has it actually produced? the best submission artists are BJJ, the best stand up artist are trained from boxing, muay thai using old fashioned methods.
Im not suggesting weights dont have a place in training for a fighter, as i agree with maximum strength being the foundation of all other types of strength, but modern methods have a lot to prove compared to old fashioned methods that have stood the test of time.
To compare MMA to boxing is unfair as they are separate disciplines, but to suggest MMA conditioning is superior to boxing is not only untrue
its simply illogical, Boxing is and art and technical training will always come first, followed by sport specific training, weights come last if at all used because they simply do not transfer very well to improved performance.

 

Thanks for the reply and also apologies for not contributing anymore to the other thread, when I had a quick look you guys had got so in depth that it would have taken me far too long to not only agree or disagree on things but also explain my views.
Ok, these are not my ideas on boxing, these are facts coming from someone with knowledge and experience of the sport and also how to make people stronger and faster. Any sport that involves generating power can be drastically improved by increasing RFD.
There are a lot of old boxing trainers that would agree with what you say, anyone who has an in depth knowledge of improving sports performance will know that I am correct.
Nobody is saying that an MMA fighter's stand-up can compete with an elite level boxer or Thai boxer, what I am saying is that a professional MMA fighters conditioning is decades in front of almost all boxers.
I do fully understand leverage, generating power from floor etc. I have a degree in sports performance and around 40 private certifications from travelling around the world learning from the best. I was a pro Thai boxer, my wife is 5 x US women's boxing champion who also has the record after Mike Tyson for the fastest knockout. I know many of the best boxers at the moment and see the unbelievably bad training that they do. I could improve any of them immediately which is what I intend to do when we open our facility later this year, I have also been designing equipment which is being made specifically to improve punching power.
Like I said in the article there are many excellent strength & conditioning coaches working in MMA, there may be more but I only know of 3 working in boxing, an Australian, a German and an Irish guy.
As far as Tyson goes he did get a decent S&C coach before he retired but he was already way past his best.
The Irish guy who is a friend of mine trained Carl Frampton for his fight last weekend, if you are knowledgable on conditioning you will be able to tell from this photo that he is strong and well conditioned, not the usual stripped down dehydrated example that you normally see at a weigh-in.
Also, last thing, I posted the article for informational purposes for anyone interested. There's not really anything to argue about, facts are facts, if you disagree there's not much more I can say.
Carl Frampton

 

yas you know how a ko in boxing is produced, this is simply undeniable it has nothing to do with how powerfully you can move a barbell,
also medicine ball throws and light hand weights have been a main stay in boxing since the earliest of days.
their isnt a better way to produce speed and power today in boxing than their was in the past. Hand speed kills in boxing, not how much power you can generate on a bench.
this is proven not by unnamed knowledgable experienced people but by fighters and trainers of the very best in boxing history.
appealing to authority that some old boxing trainers agree with you means nothing,in an argument OF facts and truth.
to claim MMA cant compete elite boxers wasnt what i stated , they compete in stand up as a fact, train for it as a fact, many of them come from stand up as a fact, with all their modern training and PEDS they couldnt compete with an average amatuer boxer in competition nor show the same level of skill.
womens boxing is the bush leagues compared to mens boxing, you know this is true yas, to compare your wife to mike tysons record
is like me comparing how fast a drunk gets knocked out out side a chip shop takeaway.
as for carl frampton that doesnt prove your argument one bit, list his weight training regime along side the rest of his old school boxing training,
secondly he his hardly the quickest most powerful boxer even in his division
you know full well the best in his division is rigo, a technical skilled boxer.

 

Being a former boxer and friends with some mma guys I'd say I pretty much agree with tiger.

 

former mma fighter myself I agree with tiger too.

 

Where I enjoy training and workouts I agree with BOTH but I have many BUTS.The old fashion way works well for fighters that are %100 naturally at there fighting weight class.So I feel working on your speed,,endurance will also work on building your strengths.BUT,,,,,with a guy like holyfield who is really only a light heavy weight/cruiserweight they PUMPED him up to a heavy weight with all the modern day training and nutrition.Vinny PAZ broke his neck in a car wreck and was told he would never fight again he PUMPED his way back up and ended up fighting middle weight.Old school is good but there's a reason why we came up with new school.It's like everything else trying to go faster it's all science now.I'm gonna go with YAZ on this one because I'm open minded with trianing and I would want speed,,,endurance AND strength so I could not only strike fast,,go 10 rounds,,,I want to be the stronger one in the ring as there's alot of pushing,,shoving,,holding.

 

Great article Yas, left me wanting more, like techniques used.

 

toom, holyfield used weight training to increase bodyweight,using bodybuilding,not weight training to increase his speed or power which yas is talking about. vinney paz did use weights,but neither fighter was known for their incredible speed or one punch ko power, they were known for their heart and unrelenting pressure. In pazs case the increase in weight through weight training effected the speed he had shown at lighter weight, and didnt increase his punching power one bit.
old scool new school is really a myth, modern American methods are based on the work of soviet sports specialist from the 1950s and their "interpretation" in the west and application hasnt proven to be very successful for western sports dominance in world athletics in the modern era.
The greatest increase in performance in the modern era are the result of knowledge and use of performance enhancing drugs and blood doping ect.
If you want speed and power in the boxing nothing has proven superior than calisthenics, bag work,and sports specific boxing training,modern sports science does not disagree with what the old school already knew through practice.
Increasing your maximum strength isnt going to help your inside game, you are not attempting to crudely shove a man across the ring, such strength advantage would be of no value and only lead to disqualification, inside fighting relies on balance and skill,which are practiced and drilled over and over again against a variety of different shape size and skill levels.Andre ward is one of the best inside fighters in the modern era, becuase he can smother, grapple and use dirty boxing through skill levels not high maximum strength levels.
Watch muay thai experts, particularly the thais themselves, they have incredible inside fighting ability for their size,clinch work, trips and throws drilled endlessly till they become seond nature. They do this through traditional old school training, and dominate stand up in encounters between western kick boxers and all their modern methods...their is a reason why it is called the ART of the eight limbs!
I dont disagree with yas in principle on the use of weights training as i stated, i disagree with its value to boxing and his ideas on boxing training,modern sports science backs up what old school boxers have known since the earliest days.If its used it will always be subbordinate to technical and sports specific work, this isnt my idea this is known since the old days and proven in the modern era through sports science specialist who state as much.
Look at the modern era fighters known for their knock out ability, galovikin has the highest percent ko ratio in the history of middleweight boxing, what special weight training made that possible? kovalev the light heavy weight champion has 22kos in 24 fights and killed a man in the ring, what special weight training made this possible? heavy weight wilder has 31kos form 31 fights,what special weight training made this possible?
from the past, thomas hitman hearns and ernie shavers are considered some of the hardest punches of all time, also julian jackson 49kos from 55 fights what weight training made these possible?
Im not anti weight training nor do i disagree with a lot yas states, i just disagree with his ideas on boxing, and think weight training has a lot to prove in the sport,you dont need weights to become a great knock out artiist, or to becomea great boxer, you just need skill and will and that takes hard work and dedication.
weight training will never replace technical work or sports specific training or ever be more important than them,i hope yas is successful in improving power in boxers, it will be interesting to see what he achieves.

 

Boxing is an art.The object is to hit, and not get hit,thus the name the sweetscience. Of course if you are boxing, you will get hit. Speed of head movement,foot movement,hand speed and using the proper technique of transfering your body weight with the wright punch at the wright time,will hurt your opponent. Speed is power,thus the term,beat him to the punch.MMA training and boxing require different skills and training. IF using weights for boxing,you must not lose your speed, you need to build muscular endurance to throw multible combinations without punching yourself out.The punch that will hurt you the most....is the punch you didnot see.

 

Bring whoever you want and put him against Deontay Wilder....

Sincerely Yours, Cajun