where do apbt come from

about how long ago did they come around, and what was bred with what to get em

 

Pick up some Richard Stratton books. He has some good explanations and challenges common theories.

 

Around +120 years ago, some people started to import dogs from U.K to USA from different familys and started breeding them as gamedogs, those dogs were, in theory, crosses of old english bulldog and old english terrier both now extinct.

 

There is no way to know for certain how this breed specifically originated, in terms of "what was bred with what." History shows us that breeders used whatever worked best for them, but early standards were based on famous bulldog and terrier crosses such as these

 

Also the potatoe famin(spelling?), back in the early 1900's, brought thousands of Irish immigrants to America,bringing their pit-dogs with them.This is not the origin of the breed,but it's how alot were brought to the states.

 

Here is an outline I made/posted for another forum last year- I paraphrased a lot from certain reliable sources- I am pretty sure I included them. It's a pretty easy to follow outline, just a tad lengthy. Sorry if it's written kindergarten style- but the audience I was appealing to at the time wasn't APBT savvy...at all.

APBT History 101 This is a general and somewhat remedial outline of APBT history. My source at the bottom. I urge any gamedog members to expand on this 101 style APBT history outline.
Hope it helps answer a question or two. (If it doesn't help at all, please lie to me and say it did. I spent a long time reducing this to an outline!)

APBT defined/early history/debates

• American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) - descendent of original English bull-baiting Bulldog , has historically been bred with working/performance goals in mind.

There are several types of dogs that are called "Pit Bulls."
-American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier (AST), Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT).
- These 3 dogs share common ancestry, but have different breeding criteria

APBT roots go back at least one hundred fifty years to England (excluding ancient bulldog history ).
-In late 18th and early 19th c."bulldogs" were bred for bull-baiting as sport, game catching, and bringing down cattle.
Historically, "Bulldog" did not mean a specific breed of dog, but rather it was applied to descendants of the ancient Mastiff- type dogs that excelled in bull-baiting.
- performance-bred working bulldogs of old resembled modern APBT's.
- todays APBT enthusiasts use "bulldog" to describe APBT's
Bull-baiting outlawed in England in 1835
- so matching two dogs against one another rose in popularity.
APBT history debate: were these pit fighting dogs a new breed of dog specially created for this new pastime?
-Some (i.e.. Richard Stratton) feel APBT is basically same breed as Renaissiance bull-baiting dogs and NOT mixed with terrier, as commonly accepted. These folks feel a bull-baiter/ terrier cross is more consistent with the English Bull Terrier's history, not APBT.
-Others (Dr Carl Semencic) argue the APBT is indeed a bull-baiter/terrier cross, and did not exist in its current form during Renaissance.
Proving early breed history is difficult
- Extreme secrecy of dog breeders. Breeders feared letting rivals discover secrets of success and replicating it.
By the mid-19th century the breed has all essential characteristics of today: awesome athletic abilitiy, gameness, easy-going temperament.

APBT crosses the pond
-Immediate APBT ancestors were Irish and English pit fighting dogs imported to U. S. mid-19th century.
-In America, these dogs were used as pit fighters, catch dogs (i.e., for forcibly retrieving stray hogs and cattle) and family guardians
-Breeders producing a slightly larger, leggier dog.
-From the early part of this century, it is rare to find a specimen over 50 lbs. (with a few notable exceptions). From 1900 to 1975 or so, there was probably a very small and gradual increment in the average weight of APBTs , without any loss in performance abilities.
APBT- the name game
Throughout 19th century, these dogs were known by many names:
-"Pit Terriers", "Pit Bull Terriers", "Half and Half's", "Staffordshire Fighting Dogs", "Old Family Dogs"(the Irish name), "Yankee Terriers"(the Northern name), and "Rebel Terriers"(the Southern name), and more.
In 1898, Chauncy Bennet formed the United Kennel Club (UKC) for the sole purpose of registering "Pit Bull Terriers"
- American Kennel Club wanted nothing to do with them.
-Bennet added "American" and dropped "Pit" from the name, this didn't please everyone so later "Pit" was added back in parentheses as a compromise.
- parentheses were later removed from the name

Early stardom and the road to distinguish the "official" APBT
In 1936, "Pete the Pup" in the "Lil Rascals" and "Our Gang" familiarized a wider audience with the APBT
-During this time the APBT was liked in America.
-kids of Lil Rascals generation wanted dogs just like "Pete the Pup".
AKC now jumped in, registered the breed as "Staffordshire Terrier"
- name changed to "American Staffordshire Terrier" (AST) in 1972 ( to distinguish from its smaller English cousin: Staffordshire Bull Terrier)
In 1936, the AKC, UKC, and ADBA version of the "Pit Bull" were identical since the original AKC stock came from pit fighting dogs, which were UKC and ADBA registered.

Due to different breeding goals, American Staffordshire Terrier and American Pit Bull Terrier split in both phenotype and spirit/temperament,
- both continue to have an easy-going, friendly disposition.
-Some feel after 60 years of different breeding goals, these dogs are now different breeds, others view them as two strains of same breed (working and show).
- ASTs tend to look alike within themselves more than APBTs
- APBTs have more wide range of appearance, because historic breeding goal was for performance in contests, not looks
-Some game-bred APBTs are practically indistinguishable from typical ASTs, most APBT's are leaner, leggier, lighter on toes, have more stamina, agility, speed, and explosive power.
From WWII - early 1980s,
-there were only a devoted few who knew the breed in intimate detail. These devotees typically knew much more about their dogs' ancestry than their own--they were often able to recite pedigrees back six or eight generations. They were a small group of knowledgeable dogmen.

Where it all went wrong for the modern day APBT:
APBTs became popular with public around 1980
- people with little or no knowledge of the breed owned and bred them
- these newcomers did not respect traditional breeding goals of the old-time APBT breeders.
-they began randomly breeding dogs to mass produce puppies as profitable commodities.
- neophytes started selecting dogs for breeding for the trait of human aggressiveness.
-Ignorants were owning and producing poorly bred, human-aggressive "Pit Bulls" for a mass market.
- media began its propensity for over-simplification and sensationalization, and gave rise to the anti-"Pit Bull" hysteria we now know.
- In spite of bad breeding practices over last 15 years or so, vast majority of APBTs remain very human-friendly.
The American Canine Temperament Testing Association, which sponsors tests for temperament titles for dogs, reported that 95% of all APBTs that take the test pass, compared with a 77% passing rate for all breeds on average. The APBT's passing rate was the fourth highest of all the breeds tested.
The APBT today
Today, the APBT is still occasionally used (underground and illegally) as a fighting dog in the United States; pit matches also take place in other countries where there are no laws or where the existing laws are not enforced. However, the vast majority of APBT's--even within the kennels of breeders who breed for fighting ability--never see any action in the pit.
- they are loyal, loving, companion dogs, working dogs, and even family pets .
One activity that has really grown in popularity among APBT fanciers is weight pulling contests.
-Weight-pulls retain something of the spirit of competition of the pit fighting world, but without the blood or sorrow.
-APBTs are ideally suited for these contests, in which the refusal to quit counts for as much as brute strength.
- APBTs hold world records in several weight classes.
Another activity that the APBT is ideally suited for is agility competition,
-his athleticism and determination can be widely appreciated.
The APBT also continues his popularity as a naturally able bodied hunting dog for bear (where legal) and hog hunting.
Some APBTs have been trained and done well in Schutzhund sport
-these dogs, however, are more the exception than the rule. APBT's excel more in sport exclusive of the need for human aggression (bitework) or guardianship

More information on the history of the breed in Dr. Carl Semencic's book "The World of Fighting Dogs".

Books by Richard Stratton

SOURCE: History of APBT ​

Michael Burr​

 

Great post LuvinBullies. The only thing that needs to be added is on the downfall side is where there was a rise in people that bred mutt dogs like "What a Whopper", and "Notorious Juan Gotti".

Also, maybe mention some of the greats that founded today's gamebred APBT: John P. Colby, William Lightner, Bob Hemphill, Bob Wallace, Earl Tudor, and I'm sure that I forgot some. These men are the reason that we own our dogs today, hands down, no arguements.

 

The term "bulldog" originated as a misnomer. It wasn't actually created as specific reference to a bull-baiting dog at all. In fact, it simply came about through frequent mispronunciations of the term "bold-dogge," which was what some of the larger dog breeds were referred to up until the 17th century.

Dogfighting wasn't a new pastime in 1835. History shows us that it was popular as far back as the 1500s. And bull and terrier type crosses were the standard for fighting dogs decades before bull-baiting was outlawed by Parliament.

I would lean much further toward Semencic's argument. There is no historical evidence that this type of dog existed prior to the 18th century. The closest known resemblance to the APBT during the Renaissance were dogs known as Ban-dogs, smaller-sized mastiff type dogs which were similar to, but still significantly different than the typical 30- to 50-pound bull and terrier cross of the late 1700s.

 

This are the names of the colonies and the time of her first settlement: Virginia 1607 New York 1614 Massachusetts 1620 Newhampshire 1623 Maryland 1634 Connecticut 1635 Rhode Island 1636 Delaware 1638 Northcarolina 1650 New Jersey 1664 Southcarolina 1670 Pennsylvania 1682 Georgia 1733. French settled in Southcarolina, they brought the art of the wine-growing.Italians founded the first glass blowing in Jamestown. Spaniards and Greeks sat down in Florida, Irishmen, Scots and Germans in Pensilvania.I think the first Bulldogs came very early to America. They were game up to the bones and looked like Zebo or, for example, colbys galtie. The typical real Bulldog has 3 external signs 1.) rather small 2.) red gene 3.) short-haired. Thus he came very early (8-11 centuries) from the Persian space with merchant ships to England. In Persien these dogs were bred before already since millenniums only for the fight. The today's Bulldogs are not as pure any more as the at that time ones. Nevertheless, differ this special dog also even today from all others. They are the best fighters, better than all the other also better than all mastiffs. .... only my personal opinion, and my personal theory

 

The oldest one form of selection is the selection with the help of the fight. Still before people the nature used this selection form and the people copied them only. With the help of this selection form you receive vital and intelligent animals. This form of the Intelligens probably allowed only the application in other areas. If one only goes back far enough one also finds in the family tree of a poodle fighter.That would mean Without fight selection = no Domestikation.

 

You made a direct ask and I will give you a direct answer:

Nobody knows for real, all we have it's just theories and guesses, we even know if the Pit Bull is Terrier, Bulldog or both... this is fact.

This was already discuted recently.

I think there's no way to know certainly, as many people I believe in the theory that says "traditional Pit Bull has no terrier blood" or if has, it's just a dot... this is what I believe, for me no one who didn't saw a Pit Bull in hog working or in the [] can say anything about his temperament. Nominating this or that "kind of Pit Bull" is a lot of crap too... in my personal oppinion or it's a pure dog or it's mixed, so much simple than giving this or that name or bullshit. In every year I hear a new Pit Bull name...

Of course this is only my personal oppinion.