why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

a mate of mine R.I.P used to dig billies, his terriers were hard as nails, some were in-bred border/lakeland some were patterdales and some were plummers jrt, i wont go into detail but these dogs were worthy of breeding and were bred...

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Jack Russell terrier's as a breed are in poor shape in the states..Popularity from television has done them great harm,thanfully thier popularity has declined a bit over here and hopefully will continue.I still can get decent stock not watered down.But its getting harder to find,and I have yet to do one single breeding and have owned them for 21 years now.Breeders in the states are breeding for looks alone most are.I like the long legged ones about 16 to 22 lbs.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

can you get decent fox terriers in the States ??

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

The JR my mother-in-law has should have died a year ago according to vets it is only 2yo kidney problems, LOL still going strong and drinks water like its going out of fashion. The lil runt is tiny weighs about 5lb and can leap to my chest and i am 6-2 her other dog is lakeland cross. JR's in our area are in good nick. show people use their breed standards all wrong it should be used as a guide not taken literally. It is a pity they did not take the Dogs Character and history literally, all the breeds would be in better shape. Dog should only be allowed to be champion/show for his breed if he/she can do what it says it can in the breed standard.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

it"s nice when you have a "it does what it says on the tin" lol

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

yes you can,in my area thier probably in better shape than the jack russell's...lots of folks around here use what we call a FIEST http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_(dog) lots of people in the southern United States use this.But wouldnt be good to go to ground with.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

"We can clearly see the less to no stop, something we have always said and claimed and bred for in our dogs!!. this dog shows that the modernday pitbull is still the same as yesterday"
I totally agree with you LimeyK The picture of the white english bullterrier 'Madman' The original EBT/Hinks dog is the fore-runner to the APBT.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

99jack its the other way around!!. the Bull-Terrier madman is the origenal dog known today as the APBT today . the Hinks Bullterrier is a ""desendanse"" of the Bull-Terrier.. ""madman"" is a halve x halve Bull Terrier, a 50% bulldog x 50% terrier cross as the text clearly states!!. and sometimes these dogs where 3/4 terrier 1/4 bulldog....also while i have let the greyhound/ bulldog discussion go i must say that in the same book it sais that the exsperimend crosses with the bulldog x greyhound where NOT limited to the eczample we discussed!!!!. it seems it was done more often!!!. witch confirms my statemend that the APBT today is mainly bulldog x varius terrier crosses, but many a bulldog x other breed that did the job was bred and crossed in to form the APBT . hensh the diviresty in this breed with coloration size types etcetera...last but not least got my new old stonhenge on the dog copy in!!. so i can be less carfull going tru my old one that is slowly falling apart...

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Hi Limey well a difference of opinion is the spice of life, your a good man and you like your history and at least we have a common interest. just bought a fourth myself it is in good condition. Try and get 'the dogs of the british isles' that is good read and the guy does a u-turn on some of his ideas/thoughts.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

99jacks diferend upinions is normal, but what i just stated hase nothing to do with a upinion.
its in the book, these are facts!!!!!. it sais that Madman is a halve/halve cross!!! a bull and terrier NOT a bullterrier. and i made the close up scans to show you and the world that iventho its a(very acurate) drawing that this dog represend the modernday pitbull terrier. and there has NEVER been ANY evidense that a(pit) Bull and terrier hase been bred diferend and ore changed over the years nor that there was ANY REZEN to breed them diferend. nor to change them and ore acsplain why the Pitbull terrier is not the origenal Bull and terrier!!!.WITCH HE IS...

infact coming back at the greyhound and bulldogs crosses some historians belive the english bulldog was a cross between the mastifs and the greyhounds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_Bulldog (read breeding and watchs the paintings)
this could acsplain the varius same colorations seen in the bulldogs back then and today in the pitbull terrier as the greyhound hase up to today!! a greyhound trowback perhaps!!!. chek the white dogs in the painting and the brindle i can show you lots of dogs today who have the same coloration. and compear some of the more inbred bulldog trowback looking pit bull terriers of today and you imidiatly see the spitting image with the bulldog of yesterday !!.
The varius difernd typs and coloratins in the american Pit Bull terrier can be ez ecsplained if we look at the varius breeds that where crossed into the bulldog sutch as the greyhound the varius terrier iven the mastif typ and coloration ecetera..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Bull-Terrier the Hyphen does not mean 'AND' . Read the Bull-Terrier description/standard at the end of the chapter and you may see and understand where your theorey ends. There were many 'OUTS' that went into pitbulls and indeed were still going on during the 1890-1960. The Dibo line is/was a very good line was'nt it. The original Bulldog was to SLOW to be a dog fighter, and if the dog is not fast enough to get first hold then it is doomed to failure in-such circumstances hence crossings to terriers. Your modern day pits are so far removed from their BLACK COUNTRY relatives, and half of all the original Bulldog type paintings and drawings and indeed the bulldog picture in that book just shows us a BOXER type dog.
Your PBT really came from the Staffy and yes we know the name only came into being in 1935 but the staffys in that picture were long legged and short legged, and these dogs had been around for scores of years before their official naming.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Why would you quote Wiki, the link that you gave, just look at the section on Breeding why would you believe that.

They all have reduced nasal/indented like that of a boxer type nothing like PBT. What about Trusty the original BD/BT

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

The above dog with Terrier like tail was a real half and half and won by all accounts more than 50 battles and beat 3 celebrated dogs of his period.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

why would i not quote anything that makes SENSE, about reduced nasal/indented like that of a boxer type nothing like PBT
you mean like THIS!!!!!!
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same dog!!!

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This dog is heavy inbred and clearly the older less refind Bull and Terrier buldog type came to the sirfis DUE to the inbreeding . and as you MAY know with inbreeding on PURE bred TIGHT bred pit bull terriers the aintient dogs of yesterday tent to come forward,
Here is a molosser typ of pitbull terrier
Uploaded with ImageShack.us that IS a pre desessor of the undershot Bull and Terrier trowback aka the APBT.
And to realy put the hammer douwn here is a compleat picture of that dog above!! that is bred of of my own stock!!!.
Now if that aint a bull and terrier trowback to the eurly 1800 then i dont know what he is!!!!!.
have a artist make a drawing of this dog put it in ANY historicel book ore stonehenge on the dog and YOU and i mean YOU wil claim that its a BULLDOG!!, insted of a BULL and TERRIER aka APBT ..
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and belive me he is NOT the ecseption rather then the rule. there are MANY APBT like him in yards of breeders around the world who like myself have more ore less 30 years hand on ecsperiense breeding these dogs. and these dogs we have are trowbacks to the eurly bulldog tye dogs like wasp and billy and them kind!!.
PS why would you quote WIKIPEDIA yourself in useing these words ""The above dog with Terrier like tail was a real half and half and won by all accounts more than 50 battles and beat 3 celebrated dogs of his period."" 99jack reading books and talking to people dont give you hands on ecseriense nor FEELING about dogs secialy this breed. witch is needed to be able to teel US how our breed is bred........

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

there is no argumend here!!!.


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Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

I rest my case contignuing is a waist of time and energy.. but it was a GOOD topic..

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

They are totally different why dont you show picture of bulldog from stonehenge book, the pics you have just posted do not come close.
The noses you are showing in these pics are NOT turned back.
You keep scratching though but i think your handler should pick you up to save you !.

ps I hope your laughing,,, anyone got a breaking stick.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

99jack are you that desperate to go into small insignificent detail mode to hold on what you belive is truth???. dont you think ore belive we did not had them with there nose pointing backwards!!!! when inbred this dog one generation further douwn the road.
these type of dogs where used as plain brood stock!!. your trying to go anal nowin defending rediculess details , claiming they are comleatly diferend holding on to someting thats out of the window.
i have seen PLENTY dogs that where spiting images douwn to the coloration everyting of the white and brindle bulldogs above being bred out of inbred APBT . so dont be rediculess and led it go your making a fool of yourself now.. .................

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

POT-KETTLE

I will say it again as i did a few posts ago, YOU ARE PROBABLY A TOP GUY. But, you are clutching at straws. Our dogs have had very few outcrosses since 1870. The APBT has changed radically over the years from that date the type was varied and American breeders who produced THIS GREAT DOG will never tell you or anyone else what dogs they used EVERYONE knows that the EBT/SHOW went into certain lines, and unless you could build a time machine and go back to the time when these breeders were breeding no one will ever know BECAUSE what they put on their pedigrees is not what is coarsing through their veins. The APBT is the best dog in the world in my book for the job it was bred for but dont believe all you read. Some of the modern pits DO NOT have the breeding that is written on their PEDIGREES.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Sorry, something else you said" our dogs can be traced back to Billy, Wasp" etc, not so. the show bulldog can also go back to these dogs, even more so and staffys also. All dogs can be traced back to the wolf and to single cell life before that, SO-WHAT. Stop using old art as a leverage for your argument and what you say is 'pithy at best'.

Your a good guy. lets just stop this, your worse than my wife for having last word.