why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

99jack wat i predicted is coming out you ARE making a fool of yourself!!, there are plenty of books and historicel fackts where you see dogs bull and terriers known as yanky terriers pit terriers being crossed yes with some bultteriers and with boston terriers and iven other crosses all known and done in the 1900/1930 and prior to that there are texst and pictures that wil confirm this.
And as i stated the bulldog and the bull and terrier where crossed with ""varius"" breeds and everyting that workt was used to breed of!!!.

this divirsety shows up in the varius bloodlines and combination upto today!!!!. there is no dinying in that!!. as genes speak and shows that they are like foot anbd finger prints.

your a proud man from the uk?? and have been away from this breed sins the dangeres doglaws of the late 80,s eurly 90,s and therfor have no ore LESS inside specific breed information and need to relly on books internet and hearsay.
and at one oint crouwnd yourself a self roclaimned ecsperd witch you are NOT...

So far so you havend showed a lot yourself just comented on my posts and most of the time im giving you details and information and pictures and stuf to ""proove"" your wrong.
as a resuld your going into rediculess claims about the nose of the dog i showed you was a halve inch ore so not backwards enoughf as in that old painting!!!!!! and therfore it looks nothing like those dogs!!!.

You are being a sore sport and holding on to ""wrongs"" out of ""pride"" and lack of ""nolige"" about this breed!!.
And ""no"" i dont know everyting thank god for that, as that would be very boreing!!.

i learn stuf ""everyday"" and sirprisinly sometimes from rookys!!. who danted on something i never have...
fact is YOU can not show me any info nor pictures nor text from""significand relevand"" books and ore other histiricel facts ecetera that wil prove im wrong!!, as i did to prove you wrong!!.

I KNOW because of the way you debate and ARGEU that your a ROOKY when it comes to a life time of breeding dogs ore jugeing them ore working with them.
your no more then a smart ass young Gun that comes out gun blasing and think you can tell the world that the APBT is a direct desendance of the bullterrier and the Stafortchire bull terrier. how hilaries is that!!!!!
and compleatly redicules.
knowing that the SBT and the AM stt at one time WHERE bull and terriers(apbt) and iven caried the NAME stafordchire bull terrir long BEFOR they where called that, it thuseend change the fact that LONG befor they where called like that that these dogs where alredy in the USA and the fact that the SBT and the AM Staff where bred AWAY from the origenal dog they ones where. is rezen enoughf not only to claim but is a known FACT that
the origenal dog that ""was"" IS left >>>>>>> IS <<<<<<<< the APBT BOOM DONE FINISHED!!!. therfor the AM staf and the STAFORCHIRE BULL TERRIER TODAY is a desendanse of the APBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

Never the less SOME EURLY SBT strains AND AM stafs back then where GOOD enoughf down the line to be used and to be bred in the origenal dogs theyORIGENATED from. it is NOT black and white!!!!!, a breeder known for his BULLTERRIER type of pit bull terriers of the 50,60eurly70 was Walter cominsky a man you NEVER heard of http://www.game-dog.com/showthread.php?t=30024&page=1
he was the only one from where you could SEE that lots of his dogs had bullterrier blood in them...
i sirguest you do a google sirtch on him and get 20 years of your hands on breeding resirching and working dogs beside your colection of books, and convinse yourself and become a real studend of the breed like many of us are...
now feel free to comend and contigniuew this discussion as i got PLENTY of other facts in the argives that wil prove your wrong. i havend even started to show stuff off. now you show me yours!!!. that wil proove me wrong......

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

"your a proud man from the uk?? and have been away from this breed sins the dangeres doglaws of the late 80,s eurly 90,s and therfor have no ore LESS inside specific breed information and need to relly on books internet and hearsay.
and at one oint crouwnd yourself a self roclaimned ecsperd witch you are NOT...

So far so you havend showed a lot yourself just comented on my posts and most of the time im giving you details and information and pictures and stuf to ""proove"" your wrong.
as a resuld your going into rediculess claims about the nose of the dog i showed you was a halve inch ore so not backwards enoughf as in that old painting!!!!!! and therfore it looks nothing like those dogs!!!.

You are being a sore sport and holding on to ""wrongs"" out of ""pride"" and lack of ""nolige"" about this breed!!.
And ""no"" i dont know everyting thank god for that, as that would be very boreing!!."

I will not show pictures or texts like what you have done, i would not want to bore everyone showing the same pics from books that you have, but in saying that i would also show the text from the same book along with the pictures you posted and not force my opinions on others and indeed let them make their own mind up. I have never proclaimed myself an expert at anything. I also think you would be better NOT telling people what they know and who they know.
I put my opinion over and you decided that i was wrong this i believe was rather presumtuous of you, do'nt you think so. I have given you many compliments and in return you just come back name calling.
Why do you think my opinions are wrong and what you believe and it is only a belief, that you are right.
Another point you claim is that you have my number, ?? means a blunder in chess.
CHECKMATE.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Thankyou for the information everyone.
many thanx.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

this guy is a fool.....i' ve got 99 problems but a bulldog aint one. lol. Go read a book and buy a show dog where talking BS is par for the course.

You are a chief.....

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

hahahahaha funny stuff.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

If ever there was a fool who has proved himself to know absolutely nothing,it is you HH.
You are without a doubt,a wrong'n.
Carry on passing the buck onto others & shifting any doubt on yourself. Only problem is that you will keep tripping yourself up,due to your lack of knowledge & hands on.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Back to the question... the pitdogs first imported into the USA ...some one has a dog who looks just like them... put up photos of early dogs ...and I bet someone out there has its equal.... R

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

99jakc my AB is a head dog! Like all working dogs each individual has it's own style. I might add I only know my dogs preferred 'fighting style' from fights when walking him and meeting another dominant male, there is no inference intentional or otherwise of an illegal activity, dogs just being dogs! But I have noticed he goes straight at the head and neck region all the time, he doesn't flip as you seem to suggest your female does, but rather overpowers them with pure strength. My dog never rolls on his back, even for me, I have to force him and then sit on him, he will not submit. I never walk him off lead now, unless his Bull Mastiff girlfriend is with us, then nothing else matters to him.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Ozdawg the same here but in general play she will go at the head and ears but alternates to legs and some times on the neck if she pins her mate down. But she often does these 360 turns with all 4 feet off the floor and uses her rear end to knock the dog down, i was just wondering if other dogs did this and also sitting on the other dog in something of a disdain stare down.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

been away for a coule of days so here is some more info . what i also found inacurate is that 99jack makes these claims about these dogs comming from the black country and stafortchire, but i belive the Colby dogs where from ireland!! they had nothing to do with the british dogs. infact the irish and british had a hard competition in the USA in the eurly days .
the Old famely REDS nose strain was from a place in Ierland named Cork, and it is belived that its because of that that, That the ""chokolate"" coloration and the ""red nose"" in the stafortchire bull terrier is considerd a fauld DUE to the presends of IRISH blood!!!!! and uhold UPTO TODAY.. how about that for knowing your history!!.

also coming back at this picture of a drawing from the rusty dog from back in the day witch 99jack posted, witch was a half halve dog and having a TERRIER like tail.
its kinda rediculess to asume that ""every"" cross dog from those eurly bredings had that feature, ore iven the littermates.
as the hybrid out come from these ""eurly"" begin crosses where FAR from uniform!!. nore pure bred, and would produse a ""large"" amound of DIFEREND looking animals in the same litters!!.
Sure today the breed in its intire is ore hase become more REFINNED and mutch more pure and uniform, never the less there are often trowbacks features to the dogs from the eurly crosses between Bulldog x terrier.. witch 99jack KEEPS dinieing.
having said the above chek this out


Uploaded with ImageShack.us SHORT terrier hairy tail!!! and a roughf bully type of prototype looking dog .
this specimen weighs in at 31 lbs short terrier HAIRY tail with a very ROUGHF long haird coat!!. and a bulldog type of dog.
ones AGAIN feutures from witch 99jack claims are not and could not be a part of the American Pit Bull Terrier as sutch due to him dinieing that the APBT IS the origenal Bull and terrier!!.
Now chek this 31 lbs short stocky looking bulldog type with a roughf one inch long hairy coat and yes a short long hair terrier tail!!!!.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Hi LK,

"ones AGAIN feutures from witch 99jack claims are not and could not be a part of the American Pit Bull Terrier as sutch due to him dinieing that the APBT IS the origenal Bull and terrier!!.
Now chek this 31 lbs short stocky looking bulldog type with a roughf one inch long hairy coat and yes a short long hair terrier tail!!!!.

I did not say the above at any point when i posted that picture. Posted the pic of Trusty who was first listed as a bulldog then someone further down the line changed the original title to suit themselves.
You have claimed on the other hand that every dog in old art and pictures is an APBT so i am a little lost as to how the British isles has been claimed to be the birthplace and home of the terrier for so long by historians.
When did the Romans invade britain or did they go to ireland first.
Ireland would have imported all their dogs from England and that would be a fact. I just do'nt know but it is all very interesting, as is your photo of that dog.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Romans never invade Ireland...99jakc, Im sorry but I don't understand what your trying to say ?...R

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Well it is documented somewhere that the Romans were so impressed with the British dogs of war that they took our mastiffs to their Arena's to fight but in return brought dogs that went to ground 'something teror meaning terrier' or is teror latin for a dog going to ground, i have seen this in an old book somewhere or writings of that meaning and just wondered if someone had seen it or had knowledge of it. Cross reference of dates of things that happened to pinpoint a little more accuracy. I never accept anything at face value.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Whats that do with this topic ?

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Quote by LK on this thread
"been away for a coule of days so here is some more info . what i also found inacurate is that 99jack makes these claims about these dogs comming from the black country and stafortchire, but i belive the Colby dogs where from ireland!! they had nothing to do with the british dogs. infact the irish and british had a hard competition in the USA in the eurly days ."

Irish got their dogs from the west coast of England, this is where the irish got their dogs.

As you say RB back to the question and original thread !
but basically what you are saying is that one person can have his opinion and the other person can't because it does not fit in with the ideas and beliefs of you and your friends.

I will not bore you with my opinion anymore, it just seems you target everything that i say and never seem to try and look at both sides of an argument.
It must be really pleasing for you all not to actually debate any logical argument as to where dogs originated and migrated to. It would really baffle historians that you know all of this and yet never look for the truth all i see on here is argument of the 'circularity and simplistic' types with no logical support for arguments and beliefs other than hear-say.
The Bull breeds were noted from Britain, that bulldogs came from the mastiffs is with-out refute as is the Romans taking our dogs to france,spain and the rest of Europe.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

cheif....


in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. lol.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

99jack your reacting ""around the posts"" i make/ made. your avoiding the esense of the posts"to avoid the facts.
witch are the ""gabs"" in your understanding!!!!. then come up with a couple of lines of non importend issue story about the romans .

MOST bull and terriers in the USA came from IRELAND, when the people imigrated to the usa to flee the potato famin.
THATS on record!! someting you claimed in previus posts didnt happend because they would have eaten there dogs!!!.
wassend John P colby a irishman???. his dogs where known documented and pictured from 1890,s. and belive his dogs where not british, if the romans took there dogs to britain centuries ago, that thussend mean the irish dogs where of british desendance ore would MATTER for that instanse ,as thats what 8,9 ,10,12 centuries prior to the first bull and terreir crosses??..

you ever heard where the bleu paul fighting dog came from!!! and in what breed his bleu coloration apears in afther the breed died out!.
and was crossed in other breeds!, and why thuse this coloration not pop up in the SBT!!!!!! (same as the choklate coloration), but in the IRISH Staforchire Bullterrier........ and the AM staff and in the pitbull terrier??.

could it be that the schottish fighting breed known as the bleu paul was used in the irish fighting breeds!!!. and like the presend irish red nose strain that thusend pop up in today,s SBT and if it thuse its NOT acsepted in the black country dogs of today known as the SBT ,

these colorations where lookt upon as a defauld due to it showing the presense of ""irish and schotish blood!!""..
2 countries who have shown in history to have deep emotional disfafour for britain, and visa versa!!............. the shear fact that dinieing these colorations in the Safortchire Bull Terrier if proofe on ""itself"" that the Stafortchire Bull Terrier today IS a desendance of the BULL and TERRIER known today as the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER .

were these colorations of the coats and nose are still presend and are not dinied nor the size and hight and weight fo that matter!!. Hensh the varius types of dogs we have shown in this topic.....
looking at the state of that poor looking animal known as the SBT today one can only come to one conclusion that the SBT is a descendant of the BULL and TERRIER known as the AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER today......... there for(tenth time) the dog known as the STAFORCHIRE BULL TERRIER is a direct desendance OF THE dog known as the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER rievius called the BULL and TERRIER.. who is the pures fighting breed today as it was yesterday and was a result of crossing VARIUS breeds with the bulldog.. and NOT soly made up from the black countries dogs known today as the SBT .

Below a picture and text out of the Your frind and mine mag from 1956
its from a BRITISH book so dont let the black country Stafortchire comperesin fool you !.
it clearly states that its a breed on its ""own"" but thuse resemble the staforchire terrier, but bigger. also (again) a referral to the greyhounds bleu coloration as a comperison of the same color.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The SBT hase ofcours been bred and crossed witch the verius developt fighting breeds, and makes up a big part of the it bull terrier as they where the same breed PRIOR to 1930,s but hase sins been bred AWAY from the origenal breed known as the Bull and Terrier.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Irish got their dogs from the west coast of England, this is where the irish got their dogs.
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No proof of that. you dont think that Ireland had pure bred bulldogs as wel in a time that the british had them??? and would not cross them with terriers dont be Naieve!!!
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As you say RB back to the question and original thread !
but basically what you are saying is that one person can have his opinion and the other person can't because it does not fit in with the ideas and beliefs of you and your friends.
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Like you where saying in your early posts that was said bij us was BULLSHIT and untrue!!!.
aint THIS the case where the pot blaims the kethel it is black!! ore could we say ""what gose around comes around"". where ore are you that naive to belive there is NO knowledge on this forum!! and that you can force us YOUR upinion about how the breed has been bred and evolved, without EVER been a breeder nor have been fooling around with this breed that would last halve a lifetime..
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I will not bore you with my opinion anymore, it just seems you target everything that i say and never seem to try and look at both sides of an argument.
It must be really pleasing for you all not to actually debate any logical argument as to where dogs originated and migrated to. It would really baffle historians that you know all of this and yet never look for the truth all i see on here is argument of the 'circularity and simplistic' types with no logical support for arguments and beliefs other than hear-say.
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its unplesand to see people like you who THINK they know, but have no ROOTS to be able to support this,
and who are hard headed and who is the one thats narrow minded not to be able to see true his own BS.
as for the historians. how more naive can you get useing these words while the REAL historians are the people who breed and raise theses dogs generation afther generation from father to son for centuries,
The so called historians are OFTEN artistick people who right books for the ``general`` publick with BITS of information BASED on myth and facts and ofthen not the real truth.
when involved with this breed and doing historicel studies you can and wil be able to combined the two and seperate facts ore truth with myth and fable!!. someting YOU cant do as you are educated in the myth and fable side of it all. there for not able to read inbetween the lines of history!!!!.
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The Bull breeds were noted from Britain, that bulldogs came from the mastiffs is with-out refute as is the Romans taking our dogs to france,spain and the rest of Europe.
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We are ALL familier with these historicel CLAIMS but non of this hase EVER been proven , but its acsepted that it is the case.
it gose as far back as that the molosser dogs where Egytion war dogs, who where shown in the MANY wall paintings found in the graves of farao,s!!!!!!!. and from where gulius ceasar took these dogs as war dogs later knowns as roman war dogs who fought against wild animals in the Arena,s and against man
so dont pretend we dont know!!!...

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

LK
"We are ALL familier with these historicel CLAIMS but non of this hase EVER been proven , but its acsepted that it is the case.
it gose as far back as that the molosser dogs where Egytion war dogs, who where shown in the MANY wall paintings found in the graves of farao,s!!!!!!!. and from where gulius ceasar took these dogs as war dogs later knowns as roman war dogs who fought against wild animals in the Arena,s and against man
so dont pretend we dont know!!!... "

The Romans were more amazed and had never seen better than the dogs with the British tribes 'as said by the Romans'. FACT.
The Romans have never chronicled anything else along these lines.

LIMEY i have never said anyone on here did not have any knowledge and if i was younger and more computer literate i would scan images and writings but to each there own.

 

Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

'Supposed' is the word that stands out in the text that you showed of that interesting article but the breed died out.
The texts on these dogs is VERY interesting and worth a read but is not proof of what you claim. Your claim throughout this thread since i first posted is that every dog in art work is an american pitbull terrier and that it is the original bull and terrier and what i am saying IMO is no it is NOT.