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why our dogs are in sad shape

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by SEAL, Feb 10, 2006.

  1. SEAL

    SEAL CH Dog

    TULARE, Calif. - A woman who weighs 37 pounds, stands 3 feet tall and uses a wheelchair has given birth to her first child, overcoming serious odds and doubters who advised her to abandon their dream of becoming parents.

    Eloysa Vasquez, 38, suffers from Type 3 osteogenesis imperfecta, a disorder that makes bones soft and easily broken. Her tiny, distorted body left little room for a fetus to grow and Vasquez suffered two miscarriages before doctors at Stanford University's Lucile Packard Children's Hospital delivered her son, Timothy, by Cesarean section on Jan. 24.

    "We just took one day at a time. We had a lot of people praying for us. We just believed ... and here we have our son," Vasquez told The Fresno Bee for a story Thursday.

    <SCRIPT>ad_dap(250,300,'&PG=NBCMSH&AP=1089');</SCRIPT> Baby Timothy weighed only 3 pounds, seven ounces at birth because doctors had to deliver him eight weeks prematurely to protect the mother's fragile health. The child did not inherit his mother's genetic condition.

    "Eloysa had an adult metabolism moving through a pediatric-size body," said obstetrician James Smith. "Her growing uterus was pressuring her entire abdomen," making it hard for Vasquez to breathe.

    Vasquez' husband, Roy, who is 5 feet, 8 inches tall, said his wife's small stature can be deceiving.

    <TABLE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 15px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SCRIPT>getCSS("3088867")</SCRIPT><LINK href="/default.ashx/id/3088867/" type=text/css rel=stylesheet></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>"She's very strong. She's a strong lady," he said.

    According to Stanford, only one in 25,000 to 50,000 births are to a mother with osteogenesis imperfecta, and even fewer involve moms with the severe form with which Vasquez was born. Smith estimates Timothy's birth was a one-in-a-million event.

    Judging from her son's long fingers and toes, "I think he's going to be a tall boy," Vasquez said.

    This is an example of breeding with no regard. I know people get all upset when you compare humans to dogs and by no means am i trying to be cruel. Maybe its just me but loving someone who has poor genetics or problems is ok. this being said heres the tie in.

    These two people decided despite the fact that the mother carries a rare genetic disease which is crippling that they should have a child. Why?

    This is the same problem i think that these animals face. despite the facts or obvious reasons for not breeding two animals together We do. I think a lot of this comes from our social standards which have become very skewed in my mind.

    It just doesnt make sense to me.
    We are the only species that will breed genetic flaws.
    These are the reasons our dogs have become unlhealthy and we as a people have also.

    let the debate begin....
  2. N M PITS

    N M PITS Big Dog

    while i can see your point of view i have to say the two have absoluotly nothing to do with each other while breeding animals with genetic flaws is never a good idea it is totally different for humans while this lady suffers from what seems to be a very serious disease she was still able to bring a healthy baby into the world and to me that is a beautiful thing that is our purpose here on earth (well one of them) to be fruitfull and multiply i know that the child i helped bring in to this world is best accomplishment i could ever hope to achieve in this world and this is in no way a knock on you (because this goes for everyone) but chances are great that you would not be here today if some genetically flawed people had decided not to reproduce this is of course only my opinon
  3. hmmmm, i agree with both sides, i think its amazing that she could have her own child, BUT what was wrong with adopting a child who is already here, but has no one to love it?? me and my fiance have agreed we will not spend tons of money on different treatments JUST to have a baby between us, if its apparent that we cant naturally and safely have our own child, we will adopt, Lord knows theres enough out there that need homes...if i had a disease like that, and there was a chance(no matter how slim) that it could be passed onto the child, i wouldnt have a child, why chance making your child suffer the things you've had to??

    Now i also agree that there is a line between animals and people, animals dont breed so much for love as people do, and animals dont spend their lives raising their offspring, they give birth and wean and most times thats where the relationship ends. We as humans know that even if we have a disabled child it will be taken care of, a disable animal on the other hand, has no real purpose really, so why breed animals that could have a physical abnormality, i mean with diabled ppl we have elevators, wheelchairs, anything anyone would ever need to survive

    so i can see both sides, and im not really sure how i feel on it yet....
  4. sajoseph

    sajoseph Pup

    My job is and has been w/ the developmentally disabled and special needs all my life. I see this every day. What I dont get is, if "they"(whoever they are) can give in to people who want to take the Lords name out of the Pledge of Allegiance, create breed specific legislation, on and on, how in the world are "they" also the ones who tell us that it is their choice to have children, (true statement) their choice to own a mansion and yacht, and we have to help them because it is our responsibility to take care of them, so that they are the same as us.

    I am all for making them feel like us, that is a wonderful thing(mainstreaming)BUT on the other hand, government is telling us the ya are not like us, they are better, they have more rights.

    That is a hard one, every adult in the US (if cmpetent) can make any decision that they want as long as they are aware of the "natural circumstances" that result from that so called decision, but yet they have children, born with "bad gemes" that grow up either using taxpayers $$$ to support them due to their inheritated genes and traits, or end up in facilities, group homes, detention centers and jails.

    It's a fine line, but think about it, society today pry wouldnt be as it is if the human race were "fixed" when they were born w/ genetic difficulties.
  5. game_test

    game_test Top Dog

    sometimes, especially when i see things like this i wonder if forcing castration on certain individuals would be such a bad idea. i mean c'mon lady. freekin genius is born every day and here is todays winner....ding ding ding the genetically messed up lady who decided to have a baby. thank you i look forward to paying your childs way through life.
  6. rocksteady

    rocksteady I'll drink to that..

    i must agree with seal her baby could have had the same disease and if she is so fragile then she could have died then the baby would be with one parent and she might die at an early age in life some things should be thought about first but i dont have children and in my eyes do not feel as if i am fit to have children while i do not have any diseases or physical disabilities just have flaws i do not wish to pass on but i might have mental disabilities lmao jmo!!!!
  7. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    I have to say I agree w/ Seal all the way. I went to school w/ a girl who's mother had an awful genetic disease. I can't recall the name, but if I do I'll post it. Anyway, my schoolmate's mother went from a vibrant woman to being severely retarded, needing round the clock care. Eventually the disease would kill her. My schoolmate found out she had the same disease. She also found it didn't become active until about 40 years of age. So what did she do? She went out & had a kid even though the odds were her kid would be affected too!! Her reasoning? She wanted a kid. Plain & simple. And it wasn't like she didn't know the gravity of the situation. She even told me she got pregnant as fast as she could after she found out b/c she wanted to have as much time w/ her kid as possible.

    I think it comes down to selfishness pure & simple. My friend wanted a kid, so she had one despite her poor genetics. This California woman wanted a kid, so she had one despite her poor genetics. To hell w/ the child's future, by God they wanted a kid so they have one! And some ppl out there want a dog that looks the way they think is right, so they breed one, standard be damned! Or they want to live high off the hog breeding non-standard dogs, so they do it. Never mind the fact they're mass producing deformed dogs that are living, breathing creatures that feel the pain of hip dysplasia or suffer b/c they can't breathe right. Who cares?? They're bring in the bucks & that's all that matters!

    Selfishness folks, it's plain selfishness.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2006
  8. circlekpits

    circlekpits Guest

    here is a topic that i thought i would never see on this forum.

    I can not believe some people are connecting the life of a human with the life of a dog. Dont get me wrong I really love this breed and most dogs in general. But I dont see the connection here. People have the choice to do what they want and are capable of making a decision about this course of action and what problems might occur in the course of thier lives and the lives in the ones of loved ones.
  9. catcher T

    catcher T CH Dog

    Yup! I would agree!!
  10. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Are you serious??? It blows my mind when folks degrade a dog just b/c it's a dog. Is a dog not a living, breathing, feeling creature of God just like a human? Now don't get me wrong - there are priorities - for example, if a child & a puppy were in the street in front of an oncoming bus & only one could be saved, most of us would of course save the child b/c a child's life ranks higher in priority to us. But I am not going to degrade the worth of the puppy b/c it is a dog! A dog is a living, feeling being too!

    And you are right, ppl have choices. And we must make the right choice. Having a kid even though doing so would put the kid's health or welfare at risk is not the right choice, just as breeding deformed dogs to line your pocketbook or b/c you think they look cool is not the right choice either. The welfare of living, feeling beings is at risk in both cases & it's the whole picture we must consider, not just what makes us happy.
  11. N M PITS

    N M PITS Big Dog

    i am going to have to say some of these answers are a little frightining thank god you all are not running this country and i will be praying for you i am not sure that the article mentioned anything about the mother being able to pass along her disease anyhow WOW this is deffinatly an eye opener
  12. Riptora

    Riptora CH Dog

    I think it is the right of anyone to have babies, despite what we think. It is also the right for anyone to breed whatever dogs they want, despite what we think. All we can do is hope for the best. It is a great thing to educate people and hope that they make the right decision. That is all you can do.

    I knew a woman who had bi-polar disorder which is pretty common and hard to live with. She and her husband decided to adopt because of this and wanted to save a child. I respect that, and personally I would have done the same had I been aware of any genetic disorders. She also was adopted.

    I think adoption of animals and children is an amazing, wonderful and powerful statement. A great way to give back to the world. Things just are the way they are, I accept that and good luck to anyone who has a high risk baby after several misscaraiges or anyone who has a litter of mutts that they intentionally bred. I hope things turn out great.
  13. Marinepits

    Marinepits Big Dog

    I agree. Very well said.
  14. game_test

    game_test Top Dog

    put 2 and 2 together and tell me how that lady is going to take care of the kid. point is she aint, i am and so will all other tax paying citizens. i must say it is an eye opener on this side of the table to know there are actually people out there that advocate procreating on poor genetics, and the fact you are ok with paying for it.
  15. Verderben

    Verderben CH Dog

    I agree 100%
  16. SEAL

    SEAL CH Dog

    i dont parallel people and animals. there is a priority in life.

    As a thinking, caring human being it is my job to protect the innocents. This includes people and animals. i wrote this so that people would consider the selfishness of their actions and possible relate it to real world HUMAN issues because sometimes people think oh well its just an animal. The way we treat and deal with the lesser species on this planet directly relates to the way we interact amongst ourselves.

    this woman risked her life and the life of her child inorder to fufill a WANT. The article does not state the disease to be transferable however if you have studied genetics you understand that all flaws from poor eyesite to dwarfism can be passed on via conception since you are using the two parents dna as a blueprint.

    This person can barely care for herself and is depending on having help ie her husband. what happens if he goes to work and has an accident? The child is healthy so far many children are born "healthy" just to later have something present itself.

    My bad eyesight was not noticed until i was in the 3rd or 4th grade.
  17. Riptora

    Riptora CH Dog

    I suppose people with ADD should think twice before reproducing too. Especially ADHD, it is most definately hereditary... oh, shoot... my kids have it on both sides of the family tree.

    Oh, well, I guess I should be more careful in selecting my next mate!

    I hope you guys don't think less of me for potentially screwing-up our race.

    I know ADD is not as bad as a physical genetic disease (or is it?) but I'm wondering where that fine line is supposed to be drawn?

    I guess there have been no great game dogs in history who have been bred with known health or behavioral problems either huh? Wasen't Chinaman known to have bitten several humans? He's not the only one...

    Maybe this woman and her husband will pass down their "gameness" of wanting a family, maybe they are some seriously good natured, productive and mentally amazing human beings. Do any of you know these people? Maybe they are geniuses!

    I personally would have adopted if I wanted a kid that bad, but for Gods sakes, are we not seriously getting a little righteous here? I'de like to know who on this forum has fabulous genetics... I would also like to know who has the right to draw the line between what diseases are acceptable.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2006
  18. SEAL

    SEAL CH Dog

    In all seriousness you know the kinds of things we are talking about. I know personally i would not want to know that i gave a tortured existance to anything if i could have done something to avoid it. I am not Juding anyone just pointing out the considerations that should be made. When i decide to have a child or children i intend to find out what possible problems i could pass on to my offspring. should i find out there is a considerable risk involved that i would give to my progency a dehabilitating disease i would have to say that i would adopt and give someone a loving home that may not have had one.

    yes people should consider and weigh the outcome. ADD and ADHD are hereditary i know first hand. It is also caused by lifestyle too. There are chemical and environmental contributors to that problem. A responsible person should consider the risks of having a child.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2006
  19. Riptora

    Riptora CH Dog

    ADD and ADHD are very hard to live with (my ex and my brother have it) much more than people think (if you REALLY do have it)

    I think it is easier to judge someone who has a physical issue because you can see it visually and quickly make judgments, but so many people have kids without thinking twice about ADD or any other disorders like that. I really don't like the way everyone on this thread is so quick to judge. I don't think any of you have the right. If I were that women I highly doubt I would have my own kid instead of adoption, but... who knows, I'm not crippled. She certainly has that right though, even if she can't physically take care of a baby (that is, we don't know, there are people with no arms who can change diapers) There are perfectly fit people who don't give a crap about their kids. I think people can't really grow without having kids, it's an amazing transition as a human being or any life. You could apply that to the dogs to, there are just some things you have to go through to get to the next step in a journey of improvment.

    I'm sure that couple loves that baby and will take better care of it than most of the parents in this town I live in. I'm sure that kid will grow up and not be an amazing contribution to this world. Good for them, hope things work out!
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2006
  20. SEAL

    SEAL CH Dog

    ive got better things to lie about than having ADD. (not trying to start an arguement just saying)

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