"Working Pit Bulls"

"Working Pit Bulls"

What do folks think aboutthose guys who use their APBT's in those competitions where they try to take off people's arms? You know like police dogs? Personally I don't get it and the pictures they post could help to portray the APBT in a very negative way. Plus, it's not what the dog is meant to do... they are not human aggressive.. Any thoughts????

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I have not used an APBT for this type of training as of yet,,imo,,any dog,,depending on size,,can be used for protection work or ring sport,,its not about human aggression,,to the dog its all a game,,I would not hesitate to use an APBT,,it may be negative to the non dog training person,,but,,to the trainers APBTs are quit impressive in ring sport and protection work

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Why would you want to??? There are MANY different breeds MUCH better suited for the job.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

My sentiments jeeperino. They kicked me off their board because I was open to debate the topic. It a board called "Working pit BULLetin". I wasn't rude, didn't curse etc.. Damn Jackbooted Nazi's!

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Although I doubt its the popular answer here I see nothing wrong with it, IF its done by a reputable organization(not some fly-by-night street org).

Why? Because among people that know dogs it puts Pitbulls in a good light because the obedience required is at a high level. If done right a very high level of obedence is established before bite work is done. The dogs and trainers need a high level of precision and control to do well. Its not just about hitting the sleve hard.

I'd love to do it. I'd need a different dog, mines too old and soft, and there are no trainers I'd want to work with around Pittsburgh that I'm aware of. My understanding is you have to work Pitbulls differently than the herding breeds, the Pitbulls have to be worked in prey/play drive so from the dogs point of view its a big game.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

If you're talking about training for Schutzhund and Ring competitions, or personal protection training by an experienced trainer, I don't see anything wrong with it. (Some people go into it with no knowledge, jump right into bitework and make a mess of their dog. That's why I said experienced.) Yes, there are other breeds that can do it and have done it historically, but that's no real reason why the APBT can't or shouldn't.

I understand when people say that its bad for the breed's image. But let's be honest. When was the last time a French Ring dog went on a rampage? Its not the well-trained Schutzhund dogs that are mauling kids, its the untrained dogs, or dogs trained to be aggressive without instilling control. Its also worth noting that cities aren't moving to ban Dutch Shepherds, Belgian Malinois, or other breeds who are typically used in bitework.

Its a sport, like anything else. A person looking to see something negative will see it in all things. One last thing; they don't train the dogs to "take people's arms off." Most of those competitions involve complex obedience and/or tracking, and the handler protection is just a part of it. (Done correctly, the dog views the bitework as a game.)

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I guess most are missing what I meant in my original post. So, let me rephrase it: Do you think that the pictures of dogs jumping in the are in aggressive (albiet controlled) manner are good for the image of our breed, do you think the pictures could be used in a negative way by the BSL people???? And if you do not think that one of those dogs will do serious damage to a persons arm then I believe you have never seen a police dog in action. Imagine if that protection thing wasn't on the persons arm???

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Walking Zeus is a pure treat as well as pure exercise.
It starts with the moment that he thinks or knows that he is about to go out!
The tail starts to, excitedly, whip back and forth, bumping and hitting anything within striking radius.

Getting the leash on was a demanding task of being able to control the happy, bouncing puppy long enough to snap the leash's clasp onto his collar.
It was after years of laughs and comments about the bouncing pit bulls that I realized that if I removed his collar with the leash attached to it, then, I would be able allow him, as he had shown me, to push his head into the (chain:not choke chain) opening and we would be out the door,
much to our surprises, that much faster.

Less work but the 'happy puppy'is,nonetheless, still bouncing around all over the place.

Once we hit the street: the first 250-300 yards are him pulling this slow human.
Watching this scenario you would think that this dog hasn't been out of the house for six months. (At least!) All you see is this dog following a scents that appeal to him.
As all of us know the Staffordshirte is a working dog that has the renown for pulling. They are, if anything, constant in their consistency of dragging you to the point of forcing you to run to keep up to them. Once he senses that you are running he begins to speed up until you are going flat out... fast.

Zeus loves his new neighbourhood because we live, virtually, at the top of the
hill in the neighbourhood. It is all downhill once we are out the door. Slow, laggard humans are that much easier to pull and that is an idea of the waY that it should be accortding to Zeus.

Yelling at him is one way to make him stop. Another is, when he decides that he wants to 'smell the flowers, 'so to speak', and he stops on a dime. Stumbling is another way that I could describe being hauled fron pillar to post, bush to tree by the dog. It is stop and go... at his whim.

The question that is rarely asked is why do you let him do this?
The reason is that, simply, I enjoyed the sheer exhiltation with which he took his walks. It is a happy dog that I am following. Vibrant, strong and determined. To take this part of his personna from him was a no-brainer. Were it not for this attribute I would, undoubtedly, be a fat, tv watching, couch potato. You can take the dog out of the joy but you can't take the joy out of the dog.

On one of our excursions in the neighbourhood we pass the local SPCA/Humane Society.

The first time that he sighted and heard this area he was quick to pull me towards the outer edge of the building. There on the wall was this mural that I, upon casting my eyes upon it, fell in love with. It is a picture/painting that shows some youngish child from the early twentieth century with a
cart laden with garbage/recyclables/treasures being pulled by a dog that is in all probabilities a pit or staff.

It is the first picture/painting that I had seen where the pit/staff is well
represented as to who and what he is all about. As soon as I get a camera I will send this picture to the site. Until then I will just talk about things that are happening.

For example: my son came to visit and the first thing that he did was buy Zeus a new leash and collar. Although he asks for the old chain, I don't oblige him because he has to get used to his new get-up. He knows that if he wants to run in a wider circle it'll take more than the short leash that he is now on. I am thinking that I should keep the chain until the late, night walks.

Whereas once the question of passerby was "Who is walking whom for a walk" has now evolved to "Takin' you for a walk? Huh?" But that is another thread.

Can't wait to get a camera. It's (the picture/painting) as exhilarating as one of his walks.

The breed is renowned for being able to see the character of people. Like all animals (humans included) there are times that they don't listen until the point of no return has been passed. Trained or un-trained an animal is an animal.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I personally would rather not see APBT used in this manner. Yes, they can be trained, yes, they are intelligent enough to be trained. Yes, to all the criteria. However, the bite of the APBT is a little over the top and unfortunatley, yes, the BSL ppl would have a field day. Face it, nobody has as many Malinois, Schutzhunds, Mountain dogs in their backyards and on the leash in the street as we APBT people and we are taking the heat.
This is just my opinion, and I support the opinions of those who differ.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

This breed was not developed or intended for protection/attack work. IMO yes it does ad fuel to the fire in the war against bsl.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Thank for the comments. Scooter, I agree with every single word you wrote.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

in my opinion any breed of dog that has someone to spend the time to train, socialize and discipline then go for it! how is it negative or bad for the breed for people to see a dog that is trained and disciplined, and competing in discipline? this breed wasnt bred for this, but you know what they are a "working class dog", lets put them to work.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

No, the image is not good. But lots of APBT people have pics of their dogs barking on their chains, or leaning hard into their collars to get at something. These kinds of things can carry the same negative connotations for people not familiar with the dogs. One is no worse than the other, IMO.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I have to agree that it does not paint a very postive picture for our breed. Yes, ppl may be impressed when they see the precison obedince, but all that will be wiped away once they see how hard & drive the APBT is to hit that sleeve.

Most APBTs will streak for the sleeve like a bullet & hit it like a freight train - often they're faster & harder than any GSD or Mal on the field. When an APBT is doing sleeve work you begin to hear murmurs of "Oh my God, look at that!" and "It's so vicious!" And don't let an APBT miss an out or not out fast enough. Then you hear "They'll never get him off now, he's locked his jaws!" & "Yeah, but their instinct is to kill!" You'd never think educated dog ppl would say that, but they do.

Schuntzhund, ring sport, etc? Fun? Yes. Can an APBT do it? Yes. Can an APBT even excel in it? Yes. It is good for our breed? No.

If one wants to put our breed in a positive light, AKC obedience is great, as it agility, therapy work or even search & rescue. All these endevours showcase our breed's obedience while not putting it in a situation where it would be seen as "vicious" in any way.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

so it is a double standard? we cant deny the history of this dog , but we need to conceal its ability?

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I respectfully disagree that it's bad for their image. This shows their intelligence more than any else will, really it's the highest form of obedience training. Just because someone on the outside looking in doesn't like it doesnt' make it wrong. Rejecting something that someone knows nothing about is the highest form of ignorance. The fact is that these dogs can do just about everything better than every other type of dog. People need to see their superb inherit ability more often.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

The APBT can do anything better than any other dog, we all know that!

The pictures are what bother me and the fact that they "could" be used in a negative way by people who know absolutely nothing about dogs. Plus, there are a million other ways to work a good dog and use his/her intewllegence too.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Fair enough, so what do you suggest is done?

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

most pictures "could" be used as negative propaganda. obedience and shuthzund isnt for everybody ,but it isnt illegal and isnt hurting anybody. i think the bottom line is just be a responsible owner to this breed, or any animal.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I just wish they kept the pictures to themselves and out of the general public's prying eyes. That's all...