"Working Pit Bulls"

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

with the popuarity with this site and all of the discussions on what is good or bad for the breed shows alot of passion for this breed. obviously you care alot and that is awesome!

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Thanks everyone for your inputs, very informative thread.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

why must we keep putting limits on our dogs when there are plenty of people trying to do that anyway. We need to show intelligent these dogs truly are. If we train our dogs and the actually start to win some of these competitions developed for these other great breeds then it might show that it isnt the dogs that are the problem its the stupid owners. If everyone had there dogs that well trained you wouldnt have any of the problems we have now.

I recently began training with Jim Sears he is a schutzhund stud. Showed me some of what his dog can do. He was absolutely amazed at how smart batista is. He told me that my dog is smart enough to do the same stuff and he could probably win. My point being we all no that these dogs can do anything any other dog can do maybe better. So why do we continually limit our dogs?

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

there is a difference between limiting what this breed does and what the breed cant do. we all know this breed can do more then any other breed. we know this breed will win at any competition more then any other breed. however, with bitesport work, yes its high obedience., yes its alot of training.. BUT, the media and peta, and hsus all they see is the dog hitting the sleeve and biting... they dont care what is involved, they only care about how fast and hard that apbt hits the sleeve on the man in the suit... they dont care about statistics, they dont care about the high level of training.. they only see what they want to see - a apbt biting a human being..

i personally dont believe this breed should be doing bitework at all. just my opinion.. if there wasnt so much media hype on the apbt even when it poops, then maybe some could do bitework, however, with all that is going on unfortunately the less this breed is in the limelight the better off... i still dont agree with this breed doing bitework though..

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

now mary ellen i would expect more out of you than this. You are a true dog lover with great fashion sense but you are telling me that we shouldnt let our dogs do something that is completely only encourages the dog to be better behave and more under control just so peta wont get there panties in a bunch? I tend to believe instead of letting them walk all over us and hide our dogs so peta cant see them we should be shoving our dogs down there throats so the whole world can see how great they are. We should be showing our dogs, competeing our dogs, anything and everything that can bring the attention to our dogs. That is the key for every pit bull attack on tv there should be 1000 pit bull visiting nursing homes and then that will swing the opinion. It is up to us not the dogs!!!!!

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

stlcardfan- here is my take on it. while i am not a fan of bitework for apbt, i think that right now, with the way BSL is limiting ownership in most towns and states, not to mention total banning in ontario canada and denver, that right now the breed should not be seen doing bite work. the JQ public doesnt see the high obedience of the dog shown, it only sees the end of the exercise, the biting of the sleeve. i personally dont care if any dog does it, i dont like the apbt doing it though, and especially now with what is going on w/ the breed i dont think its a good idea right now..

funny you should say about therapy work, i only know of a handful of pits that do therapy work.. i wish there were more. i am out every weekend doing therapy w/ my pit, and showing what a great breed they are..

but when articles like "pitbull shot 26 times " appears in the media, that throws every bit of work i just did down the drain.

yes, do weight pull, agility, rally o, etc... but leave the bite work in the back burner for right now.. why should we give the media more hype to work on??? for example, my old homeowners insurance wouldnt insure any of my dogs if they did bitework.. to me thats prejudice, plain and simple. but i need a place to live, so i didnt argue.. once the media hype dies down, and the breed is safe from BSL, then ok, do bitework.. but not now, not with all these gun crazy media reporters who dont care if a gsd kills a kid, but hops all over a supposedly pit bull that gets shot 26 times..

can you at least understand where i am coming from for this? i would rather people see this:

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

well i guess we sorta have the same opinion on the matter. The bottom line is that there needs to be more responsible pit bull owners. I do see your point that the bite work may not be the best idea for our breed but youi dont see the problem with shepards for doing bite work. Maybe there should be more pit bulls working in law enforcement. If there were it would be a lot tougher to pass bsl.


Nice pic!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

thanks, thats my boy working his magic on 2nd graders w/ the reading program..

the thing with government dogs , bsl doesnt apply... working dogs for police etc are exempt.. they have ways to get around it. like if you get bit by a police dog you cant sue even if the dog is unsound..

i dont have a problem with dogs doing bitework, i just feel that apbt shouldnt because of their history with not biting a human, and with all this crap with bsl and stuff the more positive our breed does the better, just leave out the bitework for now and dont show it.... i dont care if people do it, just dont bring it into play with showing the dog to show they are not bad... you know how the public feels about the breed, why add fuel to the fire for now.. it just doesnt make sense.. i just wish everyone would stop the nonsense and get rid of bsl..

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Agreed, 100%, especially now.

What a lot of Pit Bull owners do not understand, is that we are in war-time, fighting to keep our breed. War-time rules are different than everyday rules, and while it is perfectly reasonable to portray the pit bull as a versatile breed with many talents, showboating him right now as a "protection" or "bite work" artist is just plain cocky and counterproductive to our fight against BSL. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong. It's not "wrong" for a GSD to add jumping through hoops to his repertoire, and it is not "wrong" for a Pit Bull to be trained in protection by a professional. But that's not the point.
Americans have proven ourselves as a whole to be prone to hysteria via stereotype- i.e. Salem witch trials, McCarthy communist trials of the 1950's, etc. It's society's proven flaw. So adding to the misguided stereotypical view of the pit bull as a "protection/attack dog" severely cripples our stance. It may be "friendly fire", but it's a hit against us from BSL supporters just the same.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

i am well aware of the fact that police dogs do not apply to bsl my thought is if there were more pits in law enforcement the masses may except them more. Since it is "war time" shouldnt we get our dogs out in the public eye. Maybe bite work isnt the best choice for a positive image but tracking and obiedence would be.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Yes, we should get our dogs out in the public eye. Tracking and obedience, sure. Unfortunately opposition always twists the facts, so the pit bull needs to be sqeaky clean in the "public eye". If german shepherds were being banned everywhere, the public in favor of banning them wouldn't be impressed at the sight of one in police training. The public views law enforcement differently, and very few citizens feel a police dog is a public threat- no matter what its breed (except criminals that have been chased by a police dog.
Even if pit bulls got banned nationwide, police forces would still use them if they wanted to. Hell, they'd probably try to use the best bred Pit Bulls that were taken from their owners to do police work.
We have to show the public how much everyday citizens put them to good use, not necessarily emphasize their usefulness for policework.
JMHO.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I am going to be honest about this. Until I went to a Problem Solving Seminar with Chris Fraize in Main and saw his APBT Rumble work, I was dead set AGAINST pitbulls doing any type of personal protection work what-so-ever.

I grew up on Military Bases and around Military Working Dogs too, so I had a good idea of what is expected of these dogs.

Once I put my opinions and prejustice in my pocket and opened up my mind, I realized that a pitbull can do anything we want it to. The pitbull is a multi-faceted working dog that should not be limited to PC sports just to appease the media or anyone else.

I came away from the seminar saying to myself, "I want THAT LEVEL of obedience from my dogs." While I have no interest in doing any kind of personal protection or bite work myself, I respect the amount of work that goes into attaining that level of obedience from a dog.

What is the media's reaction going to be? Negative. No matter what this breed does, it rarely gets positive attention unless you shove it the media's face.

How do you fight them? You fight fire with fire. You fight mis-information with information. You approach with all your info in order, be patient, be persistant and be prepared.

I actually showed some of Chris Fraize's videos with his dog, Rumble doing bitework to an exec at a local TV station and to some of the media contacts that I work with. I also showed a video of a shepard doing similar work.

What was their reaction? 2 out of 3 saw the pitbull biting a human. But they didn't even BLINK when they saw the Shepard doing the same thing.

I called them on the double standard and they stopped to think. I replayed the video and pointed out what they missed. The level of obedience that the dog had, how the dog "made nice" with the decoy IN THE BITE SUIT after the session was done, how the dog was called off the decoy with a VERBAL COMMAND.

My point was made. And that is the tactic you have to use with the media sometimes. Patience, persistance and preparation.

When Chris has the Problem Solving Seminar in CT, you better believe that Birdie and I will hand deliver invitations to it to all our media contacts.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I too think both ways about this.....Even though...while it is great to prove or show that this breed is capable of performing at this level of obedience....people will use it against them. They will use whatever they can, and PIT BULL biting...they would have a field day on it! But i also think that it is very positive for them, because of the fact that there is such extensive training involved..and we all know they are more than capable of this as well as MANY other things!! Sucks you can't really decide how you feel, because of the damned media! If it were't for them I WOULD SAY....IT WAS GREAT!

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

Don't let the media make up your mind for you. Then they win.

Research the topic and make your own informed decision.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I absolutely positively commend you on what you did. If there were a million media-attending seminars with the same video, it would be outstanding to have people to prove that very same point.

Do I think the pit bull should be deprived of exploring his versatility because of prejudice? HELL NO!
Unfortunately, this is a time of mass hysteria amongst pit bull haters, who are not prone to reason. If professionals feel the breed should be publicly displayed for his high level of ability in protection work, far be it from me to tell them to can it. It is good work, no quibbles from me.

But in all honesty, do you think in WWII anyone here was saying "those krauts are some heinous fools, but they sure build a good solid, perfectly engineered tank and wow they sure are gentlemen in the battlefield-maybe they aren't so bad?"
The hysteria should be cooled first. If a captive audience can be swayed by watching a pit bull protection video with a savvy narrator- fine. I just don't think protection videos should be pushed on the public now without that savvy narrator to guide their feeble minds. That is all I am getting at.

 

Re: "Working Pit Bulls"

I suck as a narrator, but I'm sure Chris could do a voice over and make it sound great.

You don't need a million media attending seminars. It would take Chris editing that same video and doing a voiced over narration.

Then we take a trip down the wonderful information super highway. All the media reps, execs, reporters et al. HAVE EMAIL ADDRESSES!

You can send them what ever you want. I often send them the videos made by members of this and other forums to look at.