Would you bite train..

I dont know how many foster dog folks we have here.

My own Scooter is bite trained. I have worked with a trainer, and I really do feel this is a great outlet for the dog, and teaches ALOT.

BUT , now with the new dogs, I do tug work, which I think builds confindence , strength, "outs" and etc.

But am I setting these dogs up to be frustrated later on if their new home doesnt work them in bite work?

Maybe I should just stick to simple tug basics and not really work the dog into true bite work.

Scooter has been with me for 2 1/2 years, my forever foster, so I am happy to push her to new heights in all levels of training. And if her new home ever does crop up, there is no way she will go to a home who thinks they have a nice couch adornment.
If I create all my dogs to be so athletic then finding them a home that will really work them isnt as readily as people who want a happy pet.
And finding good homes isnt excatly fast and easy for these dogs.


So the question is, how far to work a foster dog., cute tug work?


opionons?....

 

You'll probably get a lot of opinions. Many don't believe in bite training pitbulls as anything with bite and pitbull in the same sentence could be taken wrong. Also, many think it encourages HA (Human Aggression).

PERSONALLY, I'm on the other side of the fence with the minority. I think it's great work to help train control, etc. However, I don't think I'd get into this with foster dogs, even a little bit. If you ever happen to misjudge somebody, or a person seems more experienced than you think it could end up disasterous. I would think of maybe training in other aspects. Competitive obedience would be a great "sport" as the dog is becoming more and more adoptable with each training session. As far as energy I would work on typical dog things, and use flirt poles, etc. Another issue would be if you went and trained a foster for weight pull, agility, etc and the new owner has no interest in using it I feel the dog may become more frustrated as it's use to a certain amount of exercise and sport that it will no longer have.

 

if you have had her that long i wouldnt worry about it as long as her temperament is stable(which sounds like it is!)

if she has been there that long you can afford to find a perfect placement for her and maybe even add that as one of the great things about her! find someone who will enjoy it with her

 

oh gez.
I meant on the two here now.. Scooter is my "dog with the golden ticket" as she can stay forever, and is going into weight training this summer, as soon as her harness arrives!!

Its the other two that and others that may come in I was pondering about.

I too worry about frustration.
(alot)

I see what it did for Scooter , who will drop ANYTHING out of her head.
and this is all bite work .. BUT.. she has to have that outlet. She is a power house, and anotehr reason she is in foster for so long. She isnt your average "toe warming doggy".
Also has given her something to focus on, and patience !
IN any given situation I can yell OUT and she outs..and takes two steps back, and if no other dog will SIT. Which is nice for she is my control when meeting new dogs to test temperments....

My newest foster Meatball (sparky) is a strong lil muscle ball, but playing with him he bites (by accident totally) your hand or whatever trying to get the toy..so we are working on the basics of WHAT THE HELL TO BITE, luckily he doesnt have the bite some of the other dogs I have worked with have.
He could benefit from good bite work..but I dont want to go into a frustration level once re homed.

*thinking out loud here , can you tell?*

Diesel is a big guy, actually was thinking of weight training him the foster group I volunteer for will buy one, but he lacks DRIVE.. so I actually canceled his harness.. he is big, strong and happy go lucky..but I dont see the DRIVE that Scooter has...gez..maybe I was wrong.
I havent even bit trained him at all, he is just learning his doggy behaviors at this point.

I think it is really good a dog has outlets, and a job but finding homes for that may be a set up for diaster.

Scooter.. hell I will keep working her until she is tired or I pass out, which ever comes first (i am betting on the later).
SHE LOVES to be pushed!

 

I think for your dogs its a great idea... but I am with pittychick- i wouldnt even start it with a dog that was going to be temporary. people can put up a great front and you never know what they are like behind closed doors. i wouldnt risk it.

stick with simple tug games... and outs, always teach outs. but beyond that dont do it.

 

Ok...I want to add something after rereading. I do think it's great that you work on certain aspects of bite work such as a reliable OUT. That EVERY dog could use. I just think that's as far as it should go for fosters unless you're sure a dog always has a home with you (the "it's just a foster I swear" dog that you probably will never part with...that's how Java started out with me), but again, it could get too risky in inexperienced hands once the dog is adopted.

 

thanks.. I think you are right..

simple happy tugs and proper toy biting.. (waiting for the toy number 1)

thanks for letting me write that out loud. I think that alone helped.

Scooter really , pittychick will have to be pried from my hands really, if ever an ap actually comes in (Zero in 2 years) and they will really have to prove to ME that they plan on working her, as in DOG already in their history that has been worked.

The other two.. I will let their homes decide what they want to do with them,I do work will all homes I adopt out to. So I could better see what the plan is from there.

Off to bite Scooter.. weeeee love it when she bites so much her lips stick.. oo she looks so funny.

:0 )



thanks again for letting me go on and on.

 

It helps to have people to think to some times I do it a lot haha!

Good luck with them!

 

I don't think you should do bite work alone, only in the context of a larger dog sport like Ring or Schutzhund.

 

Bite training isn't for APBT's, it is from Rott's, Dobi's, GSD and ABC Dogs.

 

Really, bite training isnt for pit breeds? Maybe I am using the wrong term?

Tug work, biting on flirt poles, and hang tugs,.. isnt that "bite work" ???

could be I am not using the right word ...but I think bullys NEED to bite something in positive and good ways. Helps them get out the need to chomp, bite, and expel energy. The level of course is the handlers drive , and what the dog is capable of. From happy chase/catch / bite of a tug, to serious hanging bite work. There are many levels .

Any dog with a second of drive can learn bite work in many levels. Like those nutty lil boston terriers, I have seen a few of those with insane ability and drive in bite work.

hummm ...

 

Oh, that! I thought you meant working a sleeve. I play tug of war and do flirt pole, ect. Although my dog is getting so old I will probably drop the high impact suff from now on. I misunderstood.

 

Ok, dont use humans as bite work for your dog. Schutzhundsport (nice german word^^) is not for Bulldogs (game APBTs). Use for that german word german mutts....

 

not a prob.. I think I didnt make it too clear !

Although I have seen some CRAZY police pit dogs do some GREAT sleeve work in pictures, one was a rescue dog from Ontario , went all the way to Washington State and is now an offical police dog.
In person my trainer, (who taught me and he does do GSD police type training for his dogs. schtzhuaund or however one spells that.) but we had an AWESOME Amercian BullDog in class , and he was "bite trained" like mine on tugs, and he did tires ,etc, the trainer pulled out his sleeve and with no "proper sleeve" training the dog bit wonderful , and amazing RIGHT on target on the sleeve. Man that was , well wherever he is was a GREAT dog, I think they moved to Florida.

Maybe we dont give our bullies enought credit.. lol.. we may be sitting on the next police dog force!

What is more intimidating, a fuzzy GSD or a cut stare you down trained APBT?

 

oh gez.. I wouldnt .. I am seriously gigglin on that one!

As I said I saw my trainer "play" with an ABD. But I will leave that to the more educated and the trainers of that german stuff.

LOL.. I am not bite training anything on HUMANS.

oh I need to LEARN MY TERMINOLOGY.. help!!

TUG WORK --there..ah.. help!

 

There are several police forces using pitbulls now. Mostly for bomb and drug detection though. There are also some very good schutzhund, personal protection, and ring sport trained pitbulls.

That's what I thought you were talking about too! I still am in the minority though haha

 

No I would not.

 

I guess I am in the minority as well. I have seen many a APBT and bully breed dog used in acutal bitework and they preform PHENOMINALLY. The same traits that made them so great in the pit make them excellent on the sleeve. There are several trainer that have been addressed on the topic and they all agree, bully breeds are great for the work for a few reasons:

1. You rarely have to teach the bite and hold. Naturally they have the drive to grip, you occasionally have to teach the deep bite but thats easily done by using certain sleeve types and proper decoy work.

2. They are rarely human aggressive... meaning that they are pretty much a "blank slate" as far as threat detection and reading the decoys approach. They are known for the ability to sense when a person is trouble.

3. They are built to take a licking and keep on ticking. Some breeds cant take a swift kick or a solid punch. they will release and go into a bluff mode, but are fearful of coming back in for the bite. With a bully breed if you land a solid punch or kick they would likely wag thier tail and shake and grip harder.

The only problem that i have with bite training bully breed dogs is that people cut corners and dont do it properly. If bite work isnt done right it can definately make the dog dangerous. its not something that people should be doing in thier back yards without professional supervision.

Socialization, Obedience, and THEN evaluation; introducing the dog to people of all ages, sizes, colors, and abilities, and making sure that all interactions are positive. So that your dog understands that MOST people are friends and dont require thier special skills. Going out of your way to expose the dog to noises, surfaces, places, and smells, to ensure that they arent jilted when they are confronted by them in the field.

Evaluation as i said earlier is done by a professional to determine the drive, the temperment, and potential for a dog. A lot of dogs are great pets but simply dont possess the needed drives or the proper mentaility to do the training, be it they are too aggressive, too shy, no defensive/ prey drives, etc.

When done the right way the dog is on a strong foundatoin of bonding, and training and the bitework is just an extension to it. exposing the dog to cerain situation and monitoring and rewarding the responses to them. TO assume that a dog is going to know how to deal with a situation that it has never been in is crazy. the best thing to do is under controled conditions create the situation and then see how the dog responds, to prainse or correct and basically teach your dog how to deal with the scenario. You ahve to know the adrenaline, the sights, the loud sounds the aggression and all of that is going to be a LOT for a dog to deal with the first time. Even on the field a LOT of dogs that pass evaluations do not do well on thier first bites... it comes with time. I would rather have my dog fail me on the field where we simply reset and try again... as opposed to failing in real life where there might not be a second chance.






I think that Luvnstuff has a great point; maybe we dont give our dogs enough credit. Now there are certainly situation in which bitework could be viewed negatively. its not something you should be doing out in a public park in full view of John Q. Publuic... because most people just see a dog biting people and dont understand the training that is going on.

But at the end of it all to have dog of any breed that is so trained, confident and trustworthy in its responses is an ambasssador without question. I can take Diesel anywhere and as sure as I am about the way he will react to another dog, I am that sure in his reaction to people both friends and foes.

 

oooo I couldnt agree more with Diesel!!!

And this is a key point
"The only problem that i have with bite training bully breed dogs is that people cut corners and dont do it properly. If bite work isnt done right it can definately make the dog dangerous. its not something that people should be doing in thier back yards without professional supervision."

To build a dog THAT high you have to do it properly or you are heading for real big big trouble.

My thought on bite training my fosters was in minimal tug work. But even that after thinking and writing it "out loud" could lead a dog to frustration in their new home. For biting DOES relieve stress and once use to that relief I could be setting the dog up for trouble. As they might find a replacement to relief their stress in a home that doesnt really understand tug work. And there will go kitty or something.


There are some dogs I see at the pound that are very game built , and sadly I dont usually foster those, and sadly they die, BUT its better to end their life humanely than put them out in J Public who wont understand them, breaks MY heart, but I know MY limitations and I cannot have more than one "extra" forever foster and to rehome these dogs can be near to impossible to find homes that really understand the power and the NEEDS of a dog like these.
:0(

But too, for those who have dogs of sound bomb proof status, you might be REALLY surprised at their ability as Diesel so well wrote out, and nice pics too!!!!!

*ten paws up!*

 

Thank you for that explanation Diesel, much better than I could've said.

I also want to say that if interested in doing schutzhund type training, no matter the breed use a trainer that bases all training on prey drive NOT defense drive. If you work off of defense drives you're asking for trouble IMO.