my new ofrn pup

Thanks for your suggestion but I thinking of getting out from studding dogs.
In fact, I hope in 5 years my numbers are down and no website available. Very limited breeding.

 

im hear'n ya, im not about looks at all, unless that look is showing me a fault that may hinder a dogs performance....might have all the heart in the world but not the tooling to keep it there. however its usually the other way around.
anyhow don't want to highjack the thread maybe we'll talk later in another thread.....

 

Conformation to perform is important because this is where a dog's ability comes from.
Neither Ceresco or his great grand mother Gr. Ch. Koko (aka Cocoa) had the best conformation but when you have a freak with the power of these kind of dogs, many times it won't matter.


When the money is down, nothing worst then bringing a cotton mouth roll dog. You will lose your money and your pooch.

 

This thread just got a lot better also.

The kids hunt eggs on Easter....the doggers hunt PEDs and turn around threads..
Y'all enjoy the day.gonna get close to 80 degrees...wooooweeee spring bliss..

 

Thanks for all the good 411 IM..Happy Easter to y'all.

 

Happy Easter to you too bud. See you this summer again. Hope to see you in May. Stay warm. lol

 

Happy Easter IM. I knew you would hope on here sooner or later. I knew Ceresco was a beast but I only heard stories from AA & not from you. Thanks for the info.


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Great and accurate info as usual IM. See you on the 3rd!

 

Like I said, always someone who will talk bad about your dogs no matter what bloodline you feed.

Probably not a good idea to name drop on people who still have dogs. They certainly won't appreciate it.

And I have no problem with the IK dogs. I would love to feed a good one no problem. What I don't like is the way you talk shit about any OFRN that isn't yours. If your dogs are as good as you say you should probably just let them do the talking/advertising for you instead of trying to run others into the ground. I don't sell any dogs, so I have no axe to grind, I just mentioned to the OP I have a dog off of Z and it’s a good one. If he wasn't, then I would get rid of him and buy myself a good one. I’ve never seen any of Z's other offspring go so I can't comment about them.

IK has owned and produced some good dogs. The fact that there are so many Ironline fans is a testament to that. But thinking it can't possibly be a good dog if it isn't from that stock is being kennel blind. I doesn’t matter what the ped says, I’m going to do the same thing every time: TEST the dog and CULL appropriately.

 

lol. When in doubt find out.....fern I love it, a lot of the time its constructional criticism,but the you have the ones who made all the right breeding, to all the right dogs,all the time. Like they never had that learning experience and failed at anything in these dogs.which is all fine,just don't piss on my mistakes I m supposed to be making, because if I'm not qualified to know I made a mistake, good thing I know a couple address that are!!!!

 

Any and everything I posted was FACTS! In any of my post please point out where I was wrong! I wasn't talking shit I was talking FACTS! History has spoken and one thing about history it can't be taken away! I could give a rat's cock if you sold dogs or not because my post was about "WINNING" and "PRODUCTION"! Both winning and production isn't a matter of bias but facts! Opinion means nothing whether good or bad because there is one place where that is determined…where there is one winner and one loser…that's fact!

 

all I'm saying is for somone to tell me I'm in it for peds, or cash,pissed me off untill that I was cool,but when someone says do your homework and obviously hasn't done there own,is funny... I read older post with CH,Mallard,about flametree,and hoss, bulah, heck who was cold not cur but cold, I've even pm mallard and no reply so with that being said my pups top side is not a hot

 

item,but oh well I like my pup,

 

Bosboy it just depends on what your looking for man.Thier are other options for you hog catch,weight pull,conformation etc.I don't know anything about the top side of your ped.But the dog makes the ped..Pick whatever it is you want to do with the dog and go from there.

 

Hell all pets at that age!! bosboy its your pup, and your feed bill. So you have the eye of the beholder, if it satisfies you that's all that counts

Sincerely Yours, Cajun

 

Bosboy I'm gonna keep it real with you, I'm not gonna play nice used car salesman or straddle the fence pleaser! You didn't do your homework when researching the top side or the bottom side of your pup's pedigree.

Once again from a competitive standpoint the top side is garbage.

What breeders in that top side have a record of producing winning match dogs?…NONE!

What breeders in that top side has produced one winning match dog?…NONE!

What dog in the top side has won?…NONE!

What dog in the top side has produced one winner?…NONE!

I'm not talking shit just stating the facts! The problem is you got a lot of people on this board who won't tell you exactly what I've posted. The sad part is they know the truth but either try to forget or deny the facts.

Flametree just recently while discussing his move to a nursing home said…"My dogs aren't competitive, they lack mouth, ability, power and they take 3 to 4 years to turn on. I'm thinking of adding some Machobuck blood to add some competitive fire to my dogs." Ok with this being said you think it's a secret he hasn't produced a winner? BTW Flametree's exact words concerning some of his dogs being bred to I.K.'s dogs and why I.M. was upset because of the breeding were…"It's the owner's dogs and he can breed them to whatever he wants. I.K.'s dogs will strengthen my dogs gene pool." By this statement what is Flametree saying about his dogs some of us already knew?


Morgan in an email flat out told me…" I didn't improve my red dogs like I should have because of kennel blindness." One of the first people I showed that email to was Mallard and how many times have you seen him mention that on a board?…NONE! Do you think it's a secret Morgan has been breeding OFRN dogs since 1985 and hasn't produced a winner? BTW in person I saw Morgan's Baby 1XLQ with my own two eyes, she was almost 3 lbs. over, she wasn't worth fish guts but was worth 10k! I saw her littermate brother Lonnie on video with his eyes bulging out like a Tom & Jerry cartoon laying on the floor and he wasn't worth a rat's cock from a competitive standpoint.

In 1967 Hemphill gave Wilder Hemphill's Geronimo and Hemphill's Red Dixie when Jake was 69 years old. A few years back I gave Mallard the UKC performance pedigree of Wilder's Red Satan and on that pedigree it has how many offspring are UKC only registered off I think the first four or five generations of the dogs in Satan's pedigree. Between Geronimo and Geronimo II they produced 303 UKC only registered offspring! WTF was that old ass man doing with that many offspring just off two studs, one he got as an old dog (Geronimo)? This is the genesis of the downfall of that particular segment of OFRN dogs. Wilder had ads in the Gazette in 1992 at the age of 94 selling dogs…WTF?

When Mallard spoke to T. Browne on the phone his exact words were…"I don't know why Jake kept breeding those 20 minute curs." How many times have you seen Mallard post this on a board?…NONE! On Bill Trumpler's OFRN board he knowingly bought pups off the man biter Reckless Red and his man biting sister Red Special. Trumpler also said when visiting Wilder's yard with Ron Sitze doing the tour he saw a pen filled with dogs that if they got out would bite him. When you go thru Trumpler's pedigree you can see the offspring he used in his breeding program off Reckless and Special. Trumpler's same breeding program where he added Sarona for vigor and was lucky out of 100 dogs 3 would be match quality! This was 20 years ago so Bosboy you think the quality has increased or decreased? The answer to that is real easy…there were no winners then and now, you do the math!

I could go on and on about history, factual and correct history! Pm Mallard and ask him on Wilder's Satan's UKC papers why there is a -D? I.M. has never seen Satan's UKC pedigree ever but he knew it was on there. I.M. wrote in the 1991 issue of the Gazette Satan was "supposed" to be a littermate to Duster, I.M. has been saying this going on two decades and a half! We don't need to open that can of worms but I will say this I have two micro cassettes of the recorded conversation with Mullins.

There is so much history it's ridiculous! Either people wanna sweep it under the rug, forget it ever existed or flat out deny history! Now fast forward to 2014 and people still wonder why there are no winners today! Hell in the mid 80's Wilder got busted by the police with weed and animal control took all his dogs. Animal eventually gave back the dogs, why? None of the dogs showed any signs of dog fighting and none of them had scars to indicate dog fighting. This was in an newspaper article, Mallard knows this and I have a copy of the article. This took place when Wilder was in his late 80's.

Nowadays there is absolutely no excuse not to know history! Bosboy you wanna know about the bottom side of your pup pick up the phone call the breeder responsible and find out from the breeder's mouth! One thing about boards and depending on what board you will get the slanted story because of dislike for certain breeders for keeping it real! Remember just because someone is disliked doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth! Hey don't take my word on anything that history is in black and white in that pedigree. What the breeders have accomplished is turning into history because of time. The Rebel gave me some prophetic advice once…"Past events will determine future event."

I was always told you can say whatever you want as long as its' the TRUTH!

 

Bosboy here is the OFRN female that was bred to Ceresco Kid.
Gibson's Monster Hera
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [191842] :: GIBSON'S MONSTER HERA




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I said the words that pist you off, and I stand by what I said. You came on the net showing off your little pride and joy and it got judged by its ped plain and simple. I know it dont sound fair. None of this should get to you. You went out with intentions to buy a pet right? So leave it at that.
But no you got butt hurt and you were quick to state you were buying an I.K. pup to breed back to your pup.
1. Lets see you bought a pup but find out after the fact that it wasn't bred worth shit.

2. So with your logic and reasoning (after you got your feelings hurt) you are going to buy another pup, this time to compliment and wash away the top side of your pup???? WTF!

This right here is why some of us are like WTF!
If you want game dogs get game dogs from game dog stock.
Don't breed 2 fucking pups.
You defiantly ain't around doggers because they would not have let you go that route if that's the type of dogs you set out to get.

Don't be mad at me or others because we pointed out what you didn't know after the fact.
Who knows that I.K. bottom might carry that ped to great things, but in a gambling mans game you stacked the house against you right out the gate.

There's breeders, there's gamblers, there's handlers, there's conditioners, there's dreamers, there's die hard fans of the breed, hell some do it all. But we all got to start some were and that my friend is not a keyboard. Its a long hard road to the []. And the only way there is to keep it real with yourself and not lie to your self.

My favorite word in the dogs from a well know dogger who at the time was not talking to me directly but a good friend who let his ego get the best of him and messed up a good hound.
Rational: 1. Agreeable to reason, reasonable, sensible. 2 Having or exercising reason, sound judgement, or good sense. 3 being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid.
On the ride back after that butt chewing my boy said fuck that old man, I quietly went over that statement in my head and still to this day take a step back and ask my self am I being rational before I make a move. Do I have the experience to take that road with good results. If my own rational answer is no, then I go seek and ask a seasoned veteran. Its that plain and simple. I stack the house in my favor because like I stated its a gambling mans sport and my intentions out the gate were to win. If I lose so be it, but my intentions were to give em hell and win.
And in no way is any of this about matching dogs because that is illegal. All this is for the Show ring folks who drive thousands of miles a year to compete, for the wild boar hunters bringing down beasts with the aid of there bulldog. Too them die hard fans of these noble hounds looking for gameness in these trying times, these are the folks who read about
two pups being bred just cause, and there stomachs turn from the mere thought of a bullshit breeding.

87buick
As TDK puts it "The butt ache" lol.

PS: Please do not be offended by my words, you simply upset me and I put it in writing.

 

CH, THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING......i did not breed this pup, I initially wanted a pup that was top and bottom same line there was an opportunity for me to get a pup that was a brother sister breeding ironline out of my pup dam. But it didn't work out.but my pup was available, me already knowing the said history about dogs mentioned in top of pup.what I gave was worth me finding out how a breeding like that would turn out. AND IF IT TURNED OUT. Would breed it to male I'm hoping to get. Doesn't mean I agree with anything mentioned about top side, doesn't mean I disagree or in denial just means I wouldn't mind finding out. And I don't have a top and bottom of any blood so me bothering the breeder behind her bottom side untill I get it and then ask questions about characteristics,of dog in ped and so forth. Besides I.k is not the breeder for like two Gen.so I appreciate the fact and all that but. It's unreal to say things about my knowledge and what I've done and don't know my intentions. Me saying. I think you wanna be I.m's boy toy would be unfair because you could just be really good friends. No harm intended. You get what I'm. Saying. And that's. Being. Real.