lar-san

I dont know about larsan specifically but i have seen certain claims about specific hemphill dogs that would lead me to believe they are still being used.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=139693
Not my dog. I just came across the ped. Yeah it is not a LarSan dog but on the top side these dogs were the foundation for larsan. I have been seeing pure hemphill dogs pop up too...

 

[font=&quot]GameCock (interesting name BTW),,, Breeding you "Game" Female to a bully would be no better or different than say breeding a Game Cock to a Tyson Meat Chicken.... no point to it.... If you want Game dogs stick to Game dogs, If you want Bullies stick to bullies, If you want Shoe Dogs stick to and breed show dogs..... There is no reason to cross breed your dog..... Stick with the best dogs from the best dogs and only breed to the best dogs to get the best dogs... No need to try and re-invent the wheel.... Put your Pride and Ego aside and do what’s best for the big picture... [/font]

 

pretty sure colby line has nothing to do with lar-san line.start your own thread on the colby line as i am trying to learn and see what everybody thinks about the lar-san line.

 

I agree. it is a waisted effort. It's hard enough to get it right with selective breeding and culling.

 

Larry and Sandy Comer have both passed away.
Knew them both for many years.
Sandy was elected to the board of ADOA just before she died.

Lar-San Kennel dogs were based from Martin's Ceaser.
This dog was never tested or matched.

He was half Hemphill, 1/4 Henzel (if I remember right, and 1/4 Dorthy Archer AKC American Staffordshire Terrier.

These were only show dogs and not a line of game dogs.

 

So disregarding the bloodlines here as I have no experience with lar-san dogs, this is about infusing a show line with blood from a working line.

While it sounds like a good method to improve the working aspects of the show line, I wonder on the consistency aspect.

An infusion of working blood may help with a unknown percentage of the resulting litter, but it's benefits in the long run, unless constantly re infused, would be so hit and miss that I can't see the benefit.

If you want to do this and expect consistent results, you must first improve the show line by selective breeding to work. Take the time to do this, breeding best worker to best worker in the show line,and you will eventually "create" a more consistent stable working trait in the show line itself. Only after doing this can you expect for like to breed like.

There is no quick fix in regards to this, not if you want the offspring to breed "true".

 

I think RC summed it up pretty well with his post...

I wouldn't go as far as their bullie's but more American Staffordshire Blood

And yes Gotti is a mixture of mutts.

 

Hey IronMike -

Good Post - and with the topic at hand here is that dog you asked about (pretty sure it was that IN show this past summer we spoke behind the seating stands). I've only owned this one Lar-San dog and whereas he is a good one I could only speak from my experience talking to other oldtimers who dealt with the bloodline extensively and not my own. So - hate to just recycle info I really don't have first hand.
http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pedigrees/printPedigree.php?dog_id=78677

 

I have a question do you think that its not many lines offer that or people chose not to go that route? I know some with gamebred dogs that don't believe they'd win in the UKC show ring so that is why they don't show there but do show in ADBA.

 

http://www.caragankennel.com/

http://www.matrixkennels.com/

These two Kennels run primarley Lar-san. They are a good show dog and very versitle. Like GSD said they are not the game line that most everyone her eloves. I had a Lar-San pup, Frog, was.

I guess it depends on what you want in the dog. You have to figure out what yo have time for and whatyou are going to do with this dog.

Good Luck


Tony

 

The quote was not directed towards folks who have gamelines and choose not to show UKC or ADBA people not wanting to show UKC. I agree with you that there are good dogs out there and the owner chooses not to show them. What I was pointing out is that not many lines of dogs have been known to do well in both registries. Whether its ADBA type showing UKC or UKC type showing ADBA. The lar-san dogs have been known to do that.

 

I envison a UKC dog that has more of the proper temperament you find in a working line accompanied with an athletic muscular build. Sort of a combination of what working people like to see and what conformation people like to see. A lot of UKC APBT people think the registry is missing a more athletic dog....and I tend to agree.

There would have to be selected culling and breeding over many generations but I think it could be done.

Like Marti said, I don't consider Lar-San, Gaff, or Edelhaus to be bullies (RE yes).......AKC Amstaffs yes, UKC APBT's yes.

A lot of good info in this thread......good input.

 

I tell you what would be a shit load easyer Find you the prettyest Game dogs you can find and paper hang them on UKC show dogs... Cut your time by 7/8ths......lolol....

 

Anit that the God's Honest Truth!!

 

LOOK! Breed GAME TO GAME and CRAP TO CRAP. God, how freaking hard is it to figure out?!?!? I think Im going to start a website called www.ignorantmuttpeddler.com so these f**king people have somewhere to go talk about shit they dont know the 1st thing about. Sorry Marty, this shits pissing me off. This isnt directed to any one person either. If you want to breed game to anything other than game its directed at YOU!

 

I must say that I agree with RC. I wouldnt cross gamebred with nongamebred for any amount of money in the world. It's just not the right thing to do. If you want game get game. If not don't. You wouldnt cross a gamebred pit with a dang cocker spaniel would you? I have nothing against them but I just dont think these shows are being true to the gamebred dog at all. My bulldogs look like bulldogs not like whippets. And they fire up like all heck at other dogs. We are looked at like aliens at some of these shows. Sorry. Had to vent.

 

Scooter, are you talking about the ADBA shows? If so I tend to agree with you.

 

Some of you aren't going to like this, but I say breed what you want. A dog don't know it's pedigree.

I once had a UKC PR Watchdog bred bitch who didn't have a lick of gamebred blood in her, but she was one of the fight craziest bitches I've ever owned. She would take on all comers - no matter size or sex & when she set out to get a dog she had one thing on her mind - to kill. This bitch didn't have an ounce of quit in her either - she would have been DG if we'd let her. I didn't dump her b/c of her ped & in fact, even though she wasn't game bred, but if I could get a 1000 more like her, I would.

I also had a pure Lar-San dog I sold to a friend who went on to become a 2xw. I'm sure he was bred back to game stock too.

I say stop breeding for peds & start breeding for bulldogs. If you find a good dog & it's worth breeding, breed it. Others might not like the ped, but who cares? You're the one feeding them & it's how the dog performs is what should matter.

JMHO ...

 

many years ago, there was a fella in North Little Rock that was into breeding bulldogs. They did not fight them, and if they smelled anything about fighting on you, you would not get a dog from them. Funny thing is, everyone around that area sought out those dogs to put in the pit, and they were known as winners.
I do believe that too many folks breed for pedigree rather than for a better dog. Now how many pretty ped dogs are worthless? And how many "scatterbred" dogs are priceless? When I say scatterbred, I am not speaking of breeding two dogs simply because they are both registered, but am speaking of breeding a great stud, to a great bitch, that have traits that would compliment each other.
I am a dog breeder. I am not a great conditioner, I do know a little, but that is not where I accell. I am third generation into these dogs, and I'll never breed for paper, but I breed best to best. I inbreed at times, and line breed quite often.
As to the Lar-San dogs, and what particularly stuck out to me was the Gaff blood mentioned here. I believe it is safe to say that many of them are not being bred correctly, IMO, but if you look hard enough, you find a few folks putting out some good ones.

 

Its really amazing how some are so quick to bash others' choices, and draw these lines that throw gamebred dogs on one side, and "crap" (I guess that means everything else) on the other. Do you have any idea how divisive and rude and hateful that is? I can only guess that you don't care. But guess what? This is my mutt, and no one here feeds her, so I can care less what anybody thinks. When she's out there winning in a few years, you can snark about her bloodline all you want, and it wont really matter to anybody who just appreciates a good dog.





Daddy: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=177820 (Don't ask me why part of his ped is missing. It was there before.)
Momma: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=91191

And damn proud of it!

(Have to tender my apologies to Marty as well for losing my cool. I just get so sick of this crap, and we always end up coming back to the same lame arguments after a while.)