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Old Family Red

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by Del Castillo PR, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. Cadibuck

    Cadibuck Big Dog

    You might be from where these dogs were treasured..but we are from where they were perfected..U.S.A

  2. Mc coy with all due respect how is my name or heritage gona give you a better understanding of my take on things ?
    This topic is about OFRN dogs not men !

    Like I said I am a bulldog fancier with an intrest in all aspects of the breed I would have to be retarded to not know who Iron Mike is ! I am fully aware of who Iron Mike is and what he has done with the breed and am not tryin to take anyting away from the man !

    All I am sayin is that I like many others here do not belive that the ofrn dogs did not leave Ireland in the form we see them today or 80 years ago . I belive they where bred to be what they are in the U.S more than likely from old irish stock and what ever else.

    You see I cant find any info on these old family dogs here in ireland in fact I cant find any info on pitbull dogs from the time the irish imigrants brought them over to the U.S and the 1940's its like they disappeard ??? .
  3. olrts

    olrts Banned

    USA never perfected game dogs, USA had their glory with them, and since the 90´s game dogs come back to mother europe.
  4. Eagle

    Eagle Big Dog

    The Old Family Reds were the foundation of the OFRN strain. History has shown where these dogs came from.
    The OFRN strain is just that----a strain of A(p)BT's, which maintains the traits and characteristics of the Old Family Reds.
    The OFR's came here from Ireland. The OFRN strain was developed here in the USA...
    I'm shocked this debate is still going on....

    "USA never perfected game dogs, USA had their glory with them, and since the 90´s game dogs come back to mother europe. "
    LOL, the USA did perfect the game dog....the American (pit) Bull Terrier!!!
    No other breed on this planet can ever stand ground with the REAL A(p)BT!
    Don't be fooled by all the mutts being labeled as such....
  5. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    This is where we having a problem of you understanding.
    OFRN didn't come from Ireland, their ancestors did the Old Family Reds.
    This is another problem, you don't have the right era.
    Old Family Red imports have been gone for over 100 years.
    Old Family Red Nose strain of the American Pit Bull Terrier is still alive and well here in the U.S.
    There are books and pedigrees writing of the imported dogs, why would the immigrants lie about their heritage for over a 100+ years ago?
    If you can't find those books and pedigrees then that is a problem you will have to address, not us.
    Are you really trying to claim there was not imported families of red/red nose dogs from Ireland?
    Why would those many people lie about there name?

    This is the same as saying the Blue Pols from Scotland didn't exists,
    Or the Staffords didn't exists.
    Same difference, they each had their name and heritage of where they came from.
    These are or aren't believable?
    Where did you think the blue dogs came from?
    Bulldogs crossed with hounds created terriers.
    Where do you think those Scottish blue terriers came from?
    Where did the Staffordshire Bull Terrier come from if not from the dogs from County of Staffordshire.

    Man don't try and re-write history that has been so for over 100+ years.
    Why is it when ever the is a new bunch of people get involved with this breed everything has to change?
    Look at all these Bully mutt bred dogs claiming to be APBT. This started back in the early 1980's.
    American Bull Dog BS. There is no history of the existing before Johnson 1960's.
    Don't breed true or the Alpha Blues Mountain mutts.
    No more then a AST Blue crossed up with some kind of Ban Dog,
    This is getting old............
  6. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    If you believe that son, money talks, bullshit walks.........

    That is why the breed is outlawed in so many countries in Europe.
    Latin American is where the fun is at, not Europe.

    Oh BTW I was over in Central Europe in early 90's, lol
    you can't be serious, I went and saw what they had.
  7. olrts

    olrts Banned

    Ok then explain the success with game dogs in eastern europe, mr pitbull pedigree guru

    yeah money talks - we see it in the usa that money talks :) only bla bla with outdated stuff, nothing more in over all of 90%
  8. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    It is frustrating to deal with this kind of mentality after a life time of owning know this breed to read where people try to change up things.
    It is never ending, next generation to the next, you have to teach them over and over again.
    I'm not a great conversationalist when I get tried of debating I have the tendency to want to prove what I say in another way and let the dogs hunt.
    Patience isn't my forte'. I'm here - and I can't always express myself to people who's level of knowledge is here _. I can't always bridge the gap.
    For years I have tried too but some will never get that and I have trouble excepting their inability to comprehend.
    I should just let them ramble on, the problem with that is, people start to believe this kind of crap.

    Tyler, I told where I want to live, check it out.
    Last night I was talking to an old friend I grew up with, he had Sadie (off Satan & Shetia) and Red Bull (Ch. Iron Bobcat & Apache), he stated he too was out of here when he can. He wants to live in the next county over from where I want to go. :lol:
  9. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    What those roll dogs? I have yet seen them do anything with real Pit Dogs here in the states or Latin America.
    Shows for about $300. lol
    Please save the hype. Just like our Coke a Cola, they all want everything we created or have and then claim it as their own.
    Best can be done is mire imitations.
  10. olrts

    olrts Banned

    You Created Matchdogs? ah okay, then talk to me your success or success from your dogs in the last 10 years via pm.

    And if you mean eastern europe dogs are roll dogs, then explain pls why all the american teams have lost against dogs from eastern europe on conventions in eastern europe, pls explain me this.

    Us created nothing in matchdogs, sure us have a glory with them but nothing more, this time is over, and everybody see it on oldtimers like you who only talk from dogs that passed away since 20 years and more, its the same with the keystone stuff in europe (other thread here) only talking bla bla from "pure" and something else, but show me the proof for that you have same caliber dogs like from the times when mr carver, mayfield etc step in the ring and show their dogs.
  11. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    It is a known fact the Irish imported dogs was a foundation dog that made up the breed of APBT, as a whole.
    No, you will find the foundation breed of the Irish import in ALL dogs in this breed.
    Floyd wrote in his interview awhile back 80% of the Pit Dogs today have Eli in them.

    I was down in MO. visiting with an old friend Sonny Sykes and we were just BSing and he said to me, Mike don't you agree that all modern combat dogs are a Corvino/Tudor cross. I sat there for a minute and said "Yes I do."
    I couldn't think of any who didn't have one or the other in them.
    No one can name a bloodline which doesn't carry one or the other's name in there dogs.
    Corvino used a lot of the Irish Imported dogs in his stock like Shorty, Gimp and Cunningham's Boxer (the Box Dog).
  12. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Better yet, let me show you........
    None I have saw or know of have lost.
    I noticed they haven't been traveling.
    I know one thing, not one foundation dog came from Eastern Eurpoe to creat the APBT.

    I can read you are not one to give anyone who has done something any respect, you just want to type your way into history.
    Doesn't work that way with me kid....
    Come close, U don't want to give, then I will take it ur$.....
    Don't write checks you or your dogs ass can't cash.
  13. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    lol I.M. don't take no shit! callin bluffs and pullin cards like a poker champ!!
  14. olrts

    olrts Banned

    Yes you are Created the APBT, USA registered the Dogs as that, and whats the worth of paper? nothing.

    But i wrote down here as the other guy sayed USA perfected the APBT - and that is wrong simply bullshit, and every one can see the proof in the shows us teams had lost against dogs you call "roll dogs"

    Ok man, shoot me a pm and we met with some of these roll dogs, and you will see i cash out my checks, it only depends on if you have balls or not.

    Last words here, still waiting for your pm, disrespectfully to paperboys :)
  15. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Staffords are long gone. There are no more only the breed of Staffordshire Bull Terrier and they aren't bred to type. Their conformation was changed to a smaller size back in the 1940's and all gameness was bred out.
    This breed isn't bred to type.

    I don't really care where people are born, but as history has shown, Brits weren't the first here, Vikings was.
    So was the Spanish so don't try and tell me of my own country's heritage.
    Get your facts start before you type.
    Here is confusion, you think the only Bulldog came from England, IT DIDN'T!
    They Bulldog came to England. And my colorization is correct as I wrote on my billboard.
    Re-read it.

    Please, I was around these dogs were you thought Bull Terrier was the only real thing......
    I knon what a Dudley colored nose is and why.
    So save your condescension.

    "my ancestors are TRUE NORSE VIKING ancestry, and just like the dogs it will show in distinct inherited traits:animal_plutoe"

    So are mine and so am I,- Buliwyf.
  16. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    :lol: like so many you have these dogs for the wrong reasons.
    No we didn't perfected anything, we created it from taking imperfections and making what they are today.

    There are no US Teams going over to Eastern Europe.
    I mean really, who needs to go there? Who want too? Been there, done that, won't do it again...

    Shoot you a PM about what?
    You are the one who needs to prove what you say, not me.
    I have been there and seen it, you haven't been the other way and saw it.
    You know who I am, you know how to contact me privately off the Net.
    I do know how the Net and Billboards work.
    But when you make contact, make sure you have the 3 things it takes to be a dogman.

  17. look Mike i am not tryin to change or rewrite history i am tryin to understand it. Do you not find it strange that there are no records of these old family pit dogs on this side of the pond ? most of the writings i have read are by people who had a vested intrest and kept these dogs but mostly the one story that keeps popping up is by stratton a man who can write a good book but never done nothing with dogs.

    when i mentioned the 1940s i was talking about in Ireland its extreamly hard to find info on bulldogs pre 1940s , its just somting that is itching at me nobody seems to be able to answer the question " where did they go " ? not just the OFR dogs but all pitdogs !

    ohhh and @ mc coy i think you should back up a couple of steps coz your gona get a severe dose of pink eye with your nose that far up I.M.'s ass !!:sign0151:
  18. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    Maybe this is the problem why you can't find information of Irish Old Family Red dogs, they were long gone before 1940.
    Lets agree on this, dog fighting even back in the 1930's, when we had animal cruelty laws was politely incorrect, so if that information wasn't saved then you know why.

    Our First Amendment allows us to have things like this.
    Remember when the government agencies thought they could stop Bob Stevens?
    He won with the use of our First Amendment.

    I don't have a lick of Irish blood in me so I'm not being bias.
    If people have read our site they would know we have used a lot of different bloodlines over the years.
    Many was from stock made up with more other foundations dogs in their pedigree then Old Family Reds.
    When you start winning, you stick with the girl you go to the dance with. ;->

    It is about the dogs, it isn't about the people.
    The sweet taste of winning is much better then the bitter taste of losing.

    The one thing I have continued to find a problem with and this is true when people do their own ancestral heritage search, there are problems finding out old history from an era where it wasn't being kept down in writing.
    In U.S. as people moved westward often missionaries was the only place people learn to read and write.
    To learn to read the word of God.

    Dogs records wasn't high on the agenda to keep track of.
    The information we do have about these dogs, I believe there was 100 times more information lost because it wasn't wrote down.

    Some times even when it is wrote down it is incorrect.
    i.e. history books, in them it states people were brought here during colonial times and sold as indentured servants.
    One problem, no where in National Archives does it refer to Indentured Servants.
    I have read Indentured Slaves being sold.
    So what does this mean? Yes, that is correct, there was White Slavery going on during Colonial times.

    As many has always said, "you don't know for sure unless you are there when it happens" but often people will still call you a lair even if they weren't there and you were.
    So in ending, all this is, just a pissing contest of who appears to know more.
    Thanks for your input.
    BTW I was talking to Bill Trumpler a few days back and he claim Marsha Woods talked to an old timer from Ireland, now living in England who was up into his 90's at the time and he got his dogs from his family and were suppose to be from the same stock which was imported here.
  19. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    do you think that the potatoe famine had an impact on the Irish dogs ?
  20. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    You bet your ass it did! I was trying to politely imply that.
    That is why so many people from Ireland came here in the first place. Thanks

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