What's Your Definition of a Cur (Split from Bullyson thread)

I see by quitting I don't mean just flat out not wanting to go that's insulting to a game dog and that is a cur IMO I mean physically not being able to continue for health reasons or severe injury and I do agree with you that there are game dogs out there who won't quit and didn't but I started to think about those dog and their competition and how those notable dogs would stand against a dog who was better than they were thinking that eventually one of them would stop due to not being able to physically continue as dogs like Zebo would probably go for hours on end or until the handler said no more and I imagine that the longer they go the more exhausted they will become and eventually sustain injuries that would send them into shock. I was thinking in depth and I see quit is not a good word to use for dog's who can no longer go not because they don't want to but because they physically can't. I don't understand why someone would call CH Lee's Reno a cur because he had a seizure that to me makes no sense. And some on this thread were making it like if they quit they quit doesn't matter if they go into shock they still quit lol and that is what I had an issue with.

 

Well since you have talked to the experts,let me ask you this then...Everyone keeps on saying only the people that were there knows what happened,and people see things different so in your eyes a dog can't physically go but then others there say oh he quit I've seen dogs in a worse situation and they kept going.

 

There are medical symptoms of the body going into shock Limey Posted this ...

Shock
Definition


Shock is a medical emergency in which the organs and tissues of the body are not receiving an adequate flow of blood. This deprives the organs and tissues of oxygen (carried in the blood) and allows the buildup of waste products. Shock can result in serious damage or even death.

Description


There are three stages of shock: Stage I (also called compensated, or nonprogressive), Stage II (also called decompensated or progressive), and Stage III (also called irreversible).

In Stage I of shock, when low blood flow (perfusion) is first detected, a number of systems are activated in order to maintain/restore perfusion. The result is that the heart beats faster, the blood vessels throughout the body become slightly smaller in diameter, and the kidney works to retain fluid in the circulatory system. All this serves to maximize blood flow to the most important organs and systems in the body. The patient in this stage of shock has very few symptoms, and treatment can completely halt any progression.

In Stage II of shock, these methods of compensation begin to fail. The systems of the body are unable to improve perfusion any longer, and the patient's symptoms reflect that fact. Oxygen deprivation in the brain causes the patient to become confused and disoriented, while oxygen deprivation in the heart may cause chest pain. With quick and appropriate treatment, this stage of shock can be reversed.

In Stage III of shock, the length of time that poor perfusion has existed begins to take a permanent toll on the body's organs and tissues. The heart's functioning continues to spiral downward, and the kidneys usually shut down completely. Cells in organs and tissues throughout the body are injured and dying. The endpoint of Stage III shock is the patient's death.

 

I have never seen a dog in shock,but I have seen humans in shock (unfortunatlly!) and stages 1 and 2 can look like other things.

 

Reno didn't have seizures that mofo quit plain and simple.

@Icepick, According to the logic of the scratching rules the dog has 10 seconds to make the scratch not 5 to look then scratch, at remade they are suppose to be attempting to scratch from the first second. I wasn't saying I agree or diagree just saying since it's suppose to be absolute about one being a cur then we should acknowledge all those that would fall under the rule. If someone could post it up that would be good for us to talk about on this topic

 

I think it's in the history section.

 

RRL I have only seen shows on DVD ... I have never been anywhere I am only 32 I was born after 76 lol... I have an understanding medically what happens to the body after extreme blood loss, heat exhaustion, and eventually the body shuts down and if medical intervention is not given immediately death is around the corner. I don't know if they stop the shows in Mexico and Japan to care for dogs I know I was told vets were on site so I would imagine IV's could be given and dogs showing signs of shock could be treated on scene. I am not the right person to ask as I wouldn't know the only I do know is this a dog has organs just like humans if they are not cared for properly or they sustain severe enough injuries their bodies can shut down. I would hope that any legit dog man would be able to recognize when enough is enough.

 

from how I understand pre 76, if you could touch the dogs eyeball without him blinking, and he scratches into a dog that is getting the better of him,and is not in shock, probably safe to say your dog is game, pick his ass up, and come back another day.

 

Fair enough!Humans in shock can go through the motions and just look exausted.I know what you mean about a man who knows his dogs,but my point is the ones that don't are going to see it different.There is a quote from R.Greenwood and he say's something like you can't see the damage done on the inside of a dog.It would also be difficult to prove stage 1 or 2 shock,stage 3 would be obvious I think.

 

Thats the problem, to many books... does the rule book say the dog must step across the line within 5 seconds? Never seen nor heard of that rule. Again, that would constitute a bad sign, when the scratches get slower and slower. As long as it makes the 10 count, it isnt a cur.

 

Could you explain the eyeball without blinking?What is the theory?

 

Good sign of deep shock my friend.

 

Yes I am sure that by the time the body reaches stage 3 of shock the symptoms will be more evident and the dog would require immediate attention symptoms are not always noticeable in the beginning stages you are right about that it depends on the dog unless you are in the medical field or have seen it more than once you probably wouldn't know what to look for. Or like you said a man who knows his dog could probably sense something was not right by how his dog was performing.

 

@ Rock and Rye, what if you have a dog that waits until 7 to come out of the corner, and makes it by 10, and then its the other dogs turn to scratch, and it doesnt make the 10 count? One proved to be a cur, and the other won. Never seen a title say 1xwcurr.

 

I see.So would you have said a dog would need to make it to stage 3 to prove game?

 

I was born after 76 aswell,so I understand where you are coming from.Even in the medical field it can be hard to see stages 1 +2 shock especially with and internal injury.

 

No, stage 3 would most likely be dead game...

 

Yes I agree with you! It's just like heart attacks some people don't experience symptoms until the later stages or the symptoms are very vague where that person thinks it's something else and doesn't think to seek medical attention. The medical field is not always cut and dry and each person or in this case dogs lol will show symptoms differently or at different times.

 

I think we both agree lol.I know with the human body it's very complicated even blood work and scans won't tell you everything.A surgeon told me they need to get inside and see what's really going on,the scans just give them an idea of what's going on.Some people handle shock better than other so I guess it would be the same with dogs.

 

Yeah that's pretty damn close to death.It took my brain a little while to process what you were saying there.