Papers Dont Make Dogz, Dogz Make A Paper

People should more be concerned on dog himself rather than on the papers of the dog. That means to search something you like with your own eyes not from other people stories, because what is good for me maybe its not good for you opinions are different, like we are that's why people compete in first place to prove something in practice not teoric whey. because on paper you can do whatever you want its just paper but practical thing is something completely different.
Second thing is breeding and production of dogs you see that in this they people first put papers than breed, in past first they breed and than dog get papers if he deserved. That is reason why breeding of pit bulls in this days became a big business for some people and big lose to game itself.
Today there is so much falls CH and GR CH they put rolls like match or just find some false witnesses and judge.
They became business people and they are driven by $$$$ not by game and gameness.
Some of net breeders with fancy papers all green red and yellow with touch of blue sell around 50 puppies a year.
People remember what is purpose of game. To Test by eyes not by paper,
to school, keep and breed only best in full meaning of that word.
Dogs in past came not from papers and pedigrees they came from peoples work to get better , stronger , faster ,more intelligent by testing and schooling them that whey.
In this days many people went in opposite direction because they never learned better whey.
And keep one thing in mind paper will never make dog, but dog will make not just a paper some of them made and still making books.
So think hard, before you get a dog from somebody.
And try to help people who think same.

 

That was by far the most scattered shit Ive ever read. Still, I TOTALLY get it and I TOTALLY agree. Good points there lumberjack! You should introduce yourself in the introductions thread though. Kinda rude to walk in and just start spouting off beliefs without an introduction ya know? Regaurdless, good point!! YIS, DJ.

 

i'm on the same page with DJ on this one. half of that shit i didn't understand and the rest just made me think you were some pretentious, uppity, asshole that must have been in the dogs for what like sixty years now? i think i could only understand one point you made and it was something the majority of people on this board are already very aware of.

 

Hard to understand, but I agree.
Nothing you said here is strange to any breeder that take his working with bulldogs seriously, perhaps it will be VERY difficult to see many high quality bulldogs as we seen before in same scale, it's more probably that the "real deals" bulldogs become extincted in some years... or several years...
Many breeders today have only papers to breed, at least they're doing something... worse are those ones that have hippos and say to everyone that "my pit bull is a zebo/colby crossing"... THIS IS PRETTY AND REALLY SAD...
For me personally, a real game bulldog even need a paper... but I can't say anymore that it's totally wrong... in front of that bully mutations "breeding", this is nothing wrong...
Real breeders trade with real dogs with papers or not.
Dog sellers trade only with papers.

 

I don't buy that bull. And here is why:

Yes, bulldogs (or any working dog) should be evalutated on performance alone.

That being said, papers DO make a difference. For example, let someone w/ a CKC dog come on here. No matter how good their dog is, they will get lamblasted to kingdom come by 99.9% of the folks here for having a CKC reg. dog.

Heck, I'm willing to bet most folks on this board wouldn't even TRY to find out how good the dog was. As soon at they see "CKC" the dog is automatically pre-judged as mixed bred junk.

But papers don't matter, right ...?

So please do not try to blow that happy, teddy bear, rainbow crap about papers not making a difference up my butt. They do & we all know it, although some may not want to admit it.

JMHO ...

 

Papers don't make the dog, but if you plan on breeding that dog, it helps to know what's behind it, right? Because typically, what's behind that dog will have at least some bearing on what it will produce. (I know that in an era of false papers, we don't always know that what's on those papers is true, but still...)

 

It all comes down to having a reputable breeder. If you know who you're getting your dog from and what they're about, papers don't mean squat. If you peddle puppies, papers are a must... unless you're one of the million cockroaches that sell 100 dollar byb mutts. I could give a damn about ADBA, UKC, CKC or any of em. I know where my dogs come from and IMO, everyone that owns this breed should.

 

Honestly in today's age and time most papers aren't worth wiping your ass with IMO. I have several dogs with hand written peds and have a few dogs with adba papers and would trade for more of the ones without papers any given day of the week.

 

Well, I must say! That was some jacked up shit you posted there, but like the others I "think" I see your point and agree. I think it is safe to say we all know the "old" saying. "Papers do not make the dog, the dog makes the paper"

 

I think a good example here would be Gr Ch "35" . That dog proved his weight in gold and had no papers to back him up. Sadly enough he was bred and nothing good ever came from it. I think without papers and really not knowing where the dog came from only creates obsticles when trying to start a solid breeding program.

By not knowing you might be adding more of the bad genes further pushing you away from where you want to be. Now I know if you really know your dog you should also know what is missing by eye and be able to find the missing link on your own trial and error. However I will say it is nice to have papers for a good starting point cause then you know where the falts come from. JMHO

 

Yes, totally agree with you.

As 35, the real blood of Zebo is a totally mistery untill today, and was the first dog to conquer the 3 great honors of gamedog sports - ROM, GR CH and member of Bulldog Hall of Fame.

 

Well said.....I could care less about the paper work on a dog as long as I know who his sire & dam are,and who bred the dog.. I have NEVER sent the paperwork in until the dog has proven his worth anyways,and as of 2004 I havent registered a dog with any registry..

 

I agree 100% Good post. The dog makes the papers,not the other way around. This cant be said enuf. Now go introduce youreself......We don't know you M-A-N!!!

 

I don't exactly know what heck you said exactly, but here is my opinion on papers... The individual dog is of course the most important, but you may have a "super dog" that can't produce crap because he is out of some scatterbred junk unworthy of being bred in the first place. Pedigree is VERY important because your chances of CONSISTANTLY producing superior dogs begins with a superior pedigree. The better the dogs in the pedigree, the better your chances of great dogs. Any long time breeder knows this and if pedigree was not important, no one would line breed or inbreed to get desired dogs.

 

He did not say Line breeding and inbreeding were not importan tools when breeding dogs. Nor did he say that not knowing the linniage of youre dog was the right way to go about breeding dogs. He also never advokated the breeding of dogs with unknown linniage, or commented on how a dog with unknown pedigree's quality would be as a producer. The point of his thred was simple. The dog makes the pedigree , The pedigree dosent make the dog. The op needs to work on there spelling( god knows i need to work on mine) and/or engilish.lol. That s#it was hard to read. Other than that, I'd say his post was right on. Big Game

 

In my opinion there is only one reason why someone would register their dog with the CKC,and that is that they dont know how the dog is bred yet want to mislead people into thinking that the dog is "papered"..There might be other instances where one would want to reg their dog with this outfit,but I'd bet they were in the minority..

ABK: Why do papers make a difference to YOU?.

I know many dogmen that dont register their dogs..The owner of Ch.Casino stood in my yard and told me he NEVER registered his dogs( and he's owned some good ones),and he has ran with some of the big boys back in the day..Read the background on GrCh.AwsomeBeast..SU didnt backtrack and get the paperwork on the dog until AFTER he made GrCh. and it was time to start MAKING MONEY (stud fees,pup sales)..

Paper chasers are usually the ones trying to sell pups and/or brag about dogs 3-4-5 generations back in the pedigree of their dog..

 

The pedigree on a dog IS important..The paperwork IS NOT..

 

good posts spf.

i shredded the aadr papers for my dog before sending them in...had em filled out, signed, check in hand, and decided against it. a conversation i'd had with someone prior to that helped influence my decision, but they had sound logic.

i know how her sire and dam are bred, and how she is.

don't think i'll ever register my dog(s) unless i planned on showing them in the adba. i believe i'll always know where they came from, and if i ever get to the point in my life where i wish to try and improve the dogs by breeding them, i'll be in a position to keep the litter myself, and they won't be registered either.

 

Some people here misunderstood point in my worrning but I belive good part of people didn't.
I am not a person who want to insult nobody, like frenchy insolt me.
I just try to help people with advice, that was point of my post if someone found him self insolted in my post please accept my apologies.

 

If the breeding produced a "super dog" how can you say it was unworthy of being bred? Seems to me, it produced, where many pretty papered breedings have been made to never produce a "super dog".